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Adding a 12v Turbo

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    Topic
  • #581058
    technotechno
    Participant

      Hi buddy.
      I am wanting to add a custom option to my car, I am going to do it soon so I hope
      I might get a reply sooner rather then later.

      I want to add a 12v Turbo to my car but my car has MAF sensor on the air filter
      and I am concerned the extra air sucking inn will give a fouls reading the the sensor
      and in return it might tell the car to give more gas to compensate the extra air.

      I would like your Suggestion about how I should connect it and what to expect.
      I am going to add it but I would like your advise.

      I made an image to help you understand what I am talking about plus a link
      to the turbo I am looking at adding.

      Turbo Boost 12v
      http://toptuned.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/turbo-boost-air-intake-electric.html

      Plus A PDF I was reading about MAF but didn’t give me any insights
      http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

      I don’t know your rules on posting URLs but this is helping not intentional advertising
      and I don’t mean any disrespect.

      Cheers

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    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
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    • #581139
      EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
      Keymaster

        The MAF sensor actually works in your favor with forced induction. They’re easier to set up than speed density systems. That said, you should really look at the instructions for your vehicle for specifics on the install.

        #581158
        Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
        Participant

          Just curious, how much boost does this electric turbo promise to provide?

          #581164
          technotechno
          Participant

            apparently the same as one that mounts to the motor.

            I have my own thoughts about it and don’t think so.

            However why I am looking at 12v Boost, my car is old
            and supercharger will cost me a lot more then the car did.

            I want better gas mileage and maybe I will get a bit more power as well who knows.

            I am going to connect it to a temp relay so it doesn’t come on until the
            motor is warm.

            but as far as a supercharger goes, it’s RPM forced meaning the car is not getting
            a ton of air on idle, but it gives where its needed.

            12v is always forced giving all the time.

            not real sure how it will all pan out yet. I might need to wire it to a butterfly switch
            so I can turn it on and off as needed.

            #581166
            technotechno
            Participant

              Wow now that was a fast reply mate, My workshop manual tells me what it does and how to clean it remove/install. nothing about how it should be connect if installing a boost or supercharger.

              The best spot where I have a lot of room to install this is between the motor and filter
              so that’s where I will start and start tweaking from that point till I find what works best.

              any heads up or advise will be appreciated.

              #581198
              george gonzalezgeorge gonzalez
              Participant

                It only draws 36 watts, so it’s only a gentle zephyr, probably unable to do anything at all except block the air flow.

                36 watts is 1/20th of a horsepower. To compare, the supercharger on a Merlin engine sucks about 200 horsepower and provides about 40 inches of boost pressure. With 1/20th of a horse you might get 0.020 of an inch of boost at idle, and an actual loss at anything above idle.

                #581202
                Fábio D.A. DiasFábio D.A. Dias
                Participant

                  Ranging from bench tests to science based explanations, that is just a fan blowing at your intake… and I assure you, that if you take the time to measure the pressure that your engine makes puling when running, you’ll realise, that you will actually cause restriction to the intake.

                  Here:

                  Hope that Eric doesn’t mind.. just a video from some Aussi friends that test what you’re trying to do.

                  #581216
                  technotechno
                  Participant

                    I watch the YouTube clip, they are a joke, and they did not connect the boost correctly
                    at all. Funny to watch but they are wrong.

                    If they had read the directions they would have also noticed the boost must be driven
                    directly in front of the intake and not in front of the air filter.

                    What they were doing is simply almost wasting everyone’s time watching it but was good for a laugh.

                    What they were doing was pushing air into an air filter chamber a similar way an air compressor pushes air into a cylinder to compress air and maybe building up a little pressure in the air chamber.
                    and hopefully enough to push passed the air filter and into the inlet manifold.

                    Air filter chambers don’t seal air pushing in to them, they seal from suction.

                    Anyone with a little common sense could tell this test was not going to work before they tested it.

                    #581225
                    Fábio D.A. DiasFábio D.A. Dias
                    Participant

                      If a fan like that can compress air I thinks I’ll use my hair dryer strait into my carburettor…

                      Be reasonable, do you think that if you could get that kind of results with something like this, you would see professional shops using good old turbos?

                      I have seen this kind of «electric» turbo even for scooters and they cannot compress air, they do not have the power needed to do so…

                      #581229
                      Fábio D.A. DiasFábio D.A. Dias
                      Participant

                        The only thing that could possibly help that crosses my mind would be the added turbulence in the air caused by the fan to help enrich the fuel/air mixture, even with that… no real world performance results… I have seen it live and installed from very different ways and they are a waste of $…

                        Again.. it’s my opinion, from my experience, you can give it a try if you like and get back with the results… If it works, hats of to you… B)

                        #581231
                        technotechno
                        Participant

                          I would like to see a demo of the boost I talked about in my first post/
                          105CFM = 6,300 cubic feet of air per minute.
                          That is a lot of air, now push that though 3″ how much compressed pressure is there?
                          can’t say none at all!! I don’t know how to calculate it. but would be a lot not nothing.

                          If the average car using 15:1 [15L Air 1L Gas] give or take
                          then would not 6300 Cubic Meters = 6300000 Liters of air pressure
                          be a considerable amount of air? and one would think maybe more then needed!!!.

                          Eric whats your thoughts mate.

                          #581311
                          EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                          Keymaster

                            Honestly, I’m with MCM on this one. I think there’s a reason you don’t hear about these that often and I think that’s mostly because they don’t work well. You also have to consider the power you’re taking away by loading up the electrical system. People often forget that your electrical system is a load on the engine. The more engine loads you have the less power you have available and the more fuel you’ll use.

                            I think you’d be better off with a traditional turbo rather than an electrical one. At least there’s proven technology behind that method. If there’s anything I’ve learned doing mechanical work for as long as I have is that physics doesn’t allow you a free ride, ever. There’s always a trade off. If there was a shortcut to more power someone would have figured it out by now.

                            I wish you luck no matter what you decide to do. Please keep us posted on your progress.

                            #581324
                            WayneWayne
                            Participant

                              Yep, definite gimmick. It has to hold pressure, not simply create airflow. You’d likely knew if it worked, as you’d likely kill the engine from running lean IF it worked, as stock vehicle computer settings by just throwing even a low psi turbo wouldn’t be set for it. At the least you’d have what sounded like a marble factory exploded in your headers until it throws a rod or the like later when you stomped on it from the detonations caused.

                              I don’t understand how they get out of not being sued.

                              #581349
                              technotechno
                              Participant

                                thanks all for your replies and point taken on running lean, I have to then believe
                                that running a traditional turbo would also make the car run lean? Is it not also
                                forcing extra air for better power and economy?

                                Eric you have a good point about the traditional turbo over a powered turbo,
                                I am looking to better my gas per mile not so much the power but if it helped
                                give a little more power as well then that would be great.

                                Now I ask, because of Waynes post, if you install either method turbo
                                does the car need to be tuned to avoid running lean.

                                Also may I ask why is a turbo connected directly to the exhaust manifold?
                                there must be very high temp at that point, would it not make more sense
                                to have it connect somewhere else on the exhaust away from higher temp
                                if possible? the same amount of exhaust travels the hole pipe line.

                                I still want to install the turbo even if for nothing else other then experimental
                                and explain the out come to others. But now I wary about running to lean.

                                And other options like pro-turbo’s anyone used them? any good?
                                your lucky in the USA as parts are cheap but for me to get a traditional turbo in Australia
                                second hand is $2500 & the correct manifold $700 then I would need a new exhaust fitted as well.
                                even if I do all the work my self I am looking at about $3500 maybe more including the exhaust.

                                You see why I want to try the 12v option first, if it works then great but like I said the
                                running lean is a big concern.

                                Then again would the computer not relearn it self that there is more air and correct
                                it? If I was to relearn the computer.

                                #581354
                                WayneWayne
                                Participant

                                  [quote=”techno” post=91587]I have to then believe
                                  that running a traditional turbo would also make the car run lean? Is it not also
                                  forcing extra air for better power and economy?[/quote]

                                  The point isn’t economy, for any SC or turbo system you’ll use quite a bit more gas unless you baby it big time. More air = more fuel.

                                  The cost of a turbo isn’t just initial unless you purchase a package with a tuner with a program specific to your vehicle, the turbo or supercharger and any upgraded components needed such as:
                                  MAF
                                  Higher lb injectors
                                  Upgraded fuel lines/pump
                                  etc.

                                  None of that even includes what you may need to do to the engine fundamentals or drive-train to support it. Most cases requiring forged pistons, and an upgraded transmission.

                                  Adding a turbo without altering stock programming will lean it out. Most require you to upgrade the MAF in addition to retuning, as the stock can rarely keep up even out of WOT. You’re o2 AFR sensor only does corrections when the car is not in open loop, which it switches to and uses the PCM/ECU’s programmed settings for in WOT and near. So any increase in airflow is actually creating a lean condition without correction.

                                  I’m unsure as to what conditions this thing might create, it may give a minor bit at the very start, but yes it will likely just be leaning it out for that short period, then causing a restriction for the rest.

                                  People don’t spend 5k-20k on these setups because there’s a $299 product that works with crimp connectors.

                                  #581357
                                  technotechno
                                  Participant

                                    [quote=”Wayne613″ post=91590]People don’t spend 5k-20k on these setups because there’s a $299 product that works with crimp connectors. [/quote] LOL nice

                                    Either am I a formula one car racer or some 10 second wannabee
                                    just looking for better mileage.

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