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cold start oil pressure problem – oil pressure lag

Home Forums Stay Dirty Lounge Service and Repair Questions Answered Here cold start oil pressure problem – oil pressure lag

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  • #581037
    BlazBlaz
    Participant

      hi there

      I already asked few local mechanics about this and they said it’s normal (or nothing), but i’m not
      comfortable with that…

      I have a Prelude with a lightly modded H22a4 (mostly Bolt-ons full exhaust, ATR intake, Type S cams)
      and recently I noticed that when i start the car, the oil pressure light does not turn off
      immediately but with a slight delay – about 1 to 1.5 seconds… And that only happens when the car
      sits for like few hours or more like only when the engine is cold, this doesn’t happen with the warm
      startups… the oil pressure while the engine runs is normal (have additional oil pressure gauge on
      the dash, the sensor is on the adapter plate that comes between the block and the oil filter) and the
      engine doesn’t consume any oil… Even when i start the engine again right after the first cold start
      the light goes off immediately…

      I’m using Motul x-cess 8100 5w40 oil in it and i made about 4500 km’s with it when it started doing this…
      the engine was rebuilt 10000 km before that (from what i’ve been told the piston rings, main and rod bearings,
      and other stuff that is normally changed…)

      Yesterday I switched the old pump with a known good one i had on reserve, and also the oil pressure switch,
      poured a new motul oil in it (same specs) with new filter… and it still does it, the old oil didn’t have any metal
      flakes in it or anything unusual, and the oil pickup wasn’t clogged or pump damaged in any way (pump rotor
      clearance inner-outer, rotor-housing all in specs…)

      i know that usually the oil pressure light by cold start turns off with a delay, but before it was like
      something of 0.5 second… so it’s a difference…

      so did anyone have the same/similar issue already on maybe any other engine, i’m running out of ideas ?

      best regards,
      Blaz

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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    • #581052
      Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
      Participant

        I say not an issue. Five seconds – then an issue.

        #581091
        EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
        Keymaster

          First, never run a different viscosity oil than what’s recommended by the manufacturer. You can actually damage the engine by doing this. The engineers spent a lot of time figuring out what oil should be in that engine and I suggest you stick with their recommendations. That said, if you have an aftermarket gauge installed, this can interfere with your oil psi lights operation. Lastly, oil pumps do NOT create pressure, the clearance between the engine parts do. So if you have an oil psi issue, it’s not likely the oil pump, it’s more likely that your engine has excessive bearing clearance.

          #581106
          Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
          Participant

            The oil filter screws onto the side of the block. It could be the drain back valve isn’t sealing.

            #581129
            BillBill
            Participant

              I have seen your issue and much worse on too many cars lately including my own. I don’t know what brand of filter you installed but I was using NAPA/Wix oil filers cuz I thought Wix was a good product and they make filters for many OEMs. Since I installed an expensive Mobile One filter on mine the issue has gone away. Maybe try an OEM filter or a premium filter with a silicone anti drain back valve.

              #581144
              BlazBlaz
              Participant

                I know about the philosophy behind the oil pressure, but if I had worn bearings wouldn’t than be the
                oil pressure off also at operating temperature and you could hear it when the engine is running…

                my oil pressure is at operating temperature 80°C around 1 bar at idle and around 4 bar at 3000 rpm…
                and it does this as i said only when cold, if the car sits like more than 12 hours… other than that
                the engine runs fine,

                so what should i do ? change the oil filter to OEM and the oil

                Honda recommends for this engine premium-grade detergent oil, with API at least SF or SG and viscosity
                10W-30, but the closest i can get is CASTROL MAGNATEC 10W40 or MOBIL SUPER 2000X1 10W40, both are semi
                synthetic…

                I think i’ll try with the Castrol Magnatec and report back…

                #581180
                Kevin CriswellKevin Criswell
                Participant

                  I agree with Bill on the filter. Seen many filters not seal very well on the drain back valve allowing all the oil in the galley to drain back into the pan. When you start the car you are having to wait for the filter and galley to refill which takes a few seconds. Try a premium filter and see what happens.

                  #581207
                  Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
                  Participant

                    What Eric writes concerning following the manufacturer’s oil recommendation is correct. However, I’ve never encountered where the maker offered only one recommendation. What you find is a recommendation that covers most climate situations and one for extreme hot weather and one for extreme cold weather.

                    Now, I don’t know where the OP’s Prelude is located but this winter has been strange with some parts of the world experiencing a very mild winter and some parts, like where I am unfortunately, extreme cold.

                    Conventional 10W-40 oil, when the temperature drops below zero Fahrenheit, is dangerous to run because I’ve encountered situations where it wouldn’t pump at all, in other words, no oil pressure.

                    My take on semisynthetic oil is that it is an attempt by the refiners to address both the poor pumping qualities of conventional oil at low temperatures and the thinning problems of synthetic oil at high temperatures. So, I say, not a bad choice. On the other hand, I had 10W-40 synthetic in my Evo, left over from summer, and it started like it was summer at subzero temperatures. However, I pulled it for the recommended 10w-30.

                    Oil filter prices have stayed about the same over the years but what has happened is that the quality has fled. To get what you used to get in a regular oil filter you now must buy a premium priced filter.

                    If your engine is built then all the makers oil recommendations go out the window. High performance engines have greater clearances and you must use the oil recommended by your engine builder.

                    #581222
                    Kevin CriswellKevin Criswell
                    Participant

                      Barneyb, actually for that past few years most manufactures have stopped recommending a range of oils and now only recommend one weight.

                      Hondas now only have one oil recommendation and no longer have that sliding graph showing an acceptable range. The last year for Preludes (2001) had 2 recommended oils 5w30 and 10w30 but a 2010 Accord only has 5w20 as an recommended oil and a 2012 Civic has an only recommended oil weight of 0w20.

                      My take on semisynthetic oil is that it is an attempt by the refiners to address both the poor pumping qualities of conventional oil at low temperatures and the thinning problems of synthetic oil at high temperatures. So, I say, not a bad choice. On the other hand, I had 10W-40 synthetic in my Evo, left over from summer, and it started like it was summer at subzero temperatures. However, I pulled it for the recommended 10w-30.

                      I see it more as a con game when it comes to blended oils, there are no regulations that specify how much synthetic or conventional ratios compromise a “blended” oil so you could have as much as 50% or more synthetic or as little as 5% synthetic and the oil can still be legally labeled as a synthetic blend.

                      #581273
                      Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
                      Participant

                        Zora Arkus-Duntov saw the 2nd generation Firebird on the track and came over for a look. When asked for suggestions he said, “The most important gauge on a car is the oil pressure gauge – so put it in the center right in front of the driver.” They did. I remember my TA with the Pontiac 400 engine – sixty pounds of oil pressure at idle and 60 psi on the road.

                        Modern engines can have oil pressures that are all over the place, over a 100 psi when driven cold and as low as 10 psi at hot idle. How do you teach owners to understand what is normal? Well, you can’t and therefore you get a light.

                        So, it doesn’t surprise me to learn that Honda is going to a single recommendation for oil viscosity. Just one less thing to confuse owners.

                        #581290
                        Kevin CriswellKevin Criswell
                        Participant

                          [quote=”barneyb” post=88295]

                          So, it doesn’t surprise me to learn that Honda is going to a single recommendation for oil viscosity. Just one less thing to confuse owners.[/quote]

                          I think it is more to keep owners from setting their own specs based on past experience. I have met people that buy new cars and the first thing they want to do is dump in 20W50 because that is what they used in the beater they had before and their friends claim that recommended oils are just “too thin”.

                          #581452
                          EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                          Keymaster

                            OK this is how I see it. You have modified the oil psi monitoring system by adding a gauge of your own. If this is the type of gauge that runs a line from the sending unit to the gauge, then it takes time for the oil to fill this to gain pressure.

                            Also, I cannot stress enough how you must use the correct viscosity of oil for your engine, especially on a Honda. Trust me, I’ve worked on my fair share of Hondas and they don’t like it when you use a different viscosity than what’s called for, synthetic or not.

                            So to answer your original question. I would recommend you use the correct viscosity oil and understand that your modifications may be the cause of the readings you’re getting.

                            #581491
                            valdevalde
                            Participant

                              [quote=”B86″ post=88160]…the sensor is on the adapter plate that comes between the block and the oil filter…[/quote]

                              It shouldn’t ad any oil volume.

                              #581518
                              EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                              Keymaster

                                Still, you’ve modified the oil pressure monitoring system. If you now have issues, you need to take that into account. Anything modified from stock is suspect. You have different oil and a modified oil psi monitoring system.

                                #581578
                                Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
                                Participant

                                  Okay guys, get your stopwatches out, stopwatch in one hand and key in the other. banana:

                                  I was out there this morning, ambient temperature 25 degrees. Click watch while turning key to start. Both of my cars have vertical oil filters so no filter to fill, both crankcases filled with the makers recommended viscosity. Time = 1.1 and 1.2 seconds to extinguish the oil light.

                                  The OP is estimating 1 to 1.5 seconds and his car has a horizontal oil filter that could leak back to the crankcase.

                                  #581715
                                  BlazBlaz
                                  Participant

                                    wow this topic really got attention 😀

                                    anyway it seems to me that the oil filter was the culprit and maybe the oil too…

                                    installed the OEM oil filter and changed the oil to Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 semi synthetic, started
                                    it up, and oil pressure light went out immediatelly 🙂

                                    regarding the viscosity there souldn’t be a problem because i drive the car only on summer and
                                    few friends have been running 10w40 now for years in daily driven h22 with zero problems…
                                    and moreover nobody in our country stocks 10w-30 at all, don’t know why.

                                    guess i’ll have to use oem oil filters, the ones i used till now were some poor imitations i guess
                                    (brands like Comline and Ashika – european take on spare parts for japanese cars, but not good enough
                                    as it seems…)

                                    no the adapter between the filter and engine shouldn’t be a problem, I have been using it now on the H
                                    engines for 7 years, problem would be only if it wasn’t sealing well i guess.

                                    anyway thanks for the tips, finally got the right answer 😉

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