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Eric’s newest ETCG1 video ‘Flatrate System Revisit

Home Forums Stay Dirty Lounge ETCG1 Video Discussions Eric’s newest ETCG1 video ‘Flatrate System Revisit

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  • #480925
    EarlEarl
    Participant

      I think hat Eric has a lot of valid points in this video. I would have to agree that when it comes to making good money on flat rate that isn’t as lucrative as it once was. The amount of time you get credit for has really been diminished because of all of the warranty work. It seems that just about everything on a vehicle is covered under some kind warranty. I also would have to agree about technicians getting “lazy” or milking time if the flat rate time if the system wasn’t in place. I just believe that with not being compensated for doing a job as it once was you aren’t going to have replacement technicians. The bottom line is you aren’t going to be a technician to get rich you do it because you love the job.

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
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    • #480927
      BruceBruce
      Participant

        Hourly plus commission. Back when minimum wage was 5.25/hr I worked at a shop that payed $7/hr plus 15.5% of parts and labor after the first $1550 for a 50 hour work week. If you only worked 40 hours one week then you started making commission after $1250 or so. So basically after you covered your hourly you started making commission.

        ETA- Even the tire techs made commission. They made 8-10/hr plus 9 or 10% after the first (I think)$900, but it didnt include new tires. They made commission off valve stems, mount & balancing, oil changes, used tires, etc

        #480931
        EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
        Keymaster

          Better late to the party than never.

          #480933
          EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
          Keymaster

            I might as well post this video also.

            #480953
            Andy WhiteAndy White
            Participant

              Need an hourly rate and better oversight by the managers. If a tech is slacking off or something then the managers need to deal with it, or they will probably go out of business.

              #480996
              SpawnedXSpawnedX
              Participant

                I agree with Eric on numerous things in this video. Couple of things I think Eric needs to change what he said on. Every new guy at my shop starts at 10…and it takes years for them to even get to to 15. A very miniscle amount ever see over 20, even our foreman was at 22 when he quit.

                Also, lets call good ego, self esteem. Self esteem is good, ego is bad.r Being humble and having humility is the admirable trait.

                My suggestion is salary with an hourly efficiency rate used to mark performance and who to decide to keep or let go.

                Hourly efficiency rating still makes flag rate useful. Book time tells you how many hours it should take a job. Still have them flag a line and close a line when done. Compare the hours flagged versus the hours the job should take. So if you flag 40 hours on 40 hours billed that is a 100% efficiency rating and they aren’t being lazy. If they flag 40 for 48 hours billed, they are at 120% efficiency. If they are at 40 flagged but 32 billed, they are at 80% efficiency and if this is a pattern behavior, you have a problem and can correct it through coaching or termination.

                Obviously hourly rates will go down to account for slow weeks, but I would rather get 40 at 15 an hour every week than 18 at 25 to 30 hours. And to provide incentive to work over 100% efficiency, offer an extra 2.00 or 3.00, etc. For every hour over 40 billed.

                The tech can make a concession and agree that at a 40 hour salary they are required to come in for their normal 50 hours.

                #481035
                EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                Keymaster

                  [quote=”SpawnedX” post=39690]I agree with Eric on numerous things in this video. Couple of things I think Eric needs to change what he said on. Every new guy at my shop starts at 10…and it takes years for them to even get to to 15. A very miniscle amount ever see over 20, even our foreman was at 22 when he quit.

                  Also, lets call good ego, self esteem. Self esteem is good, ego is bad.r Being humble and having humility is the admirable trait.

                  My suggestion is salary with an hourly efficiency rate used to mark performance and who to decide to keep or let go.

                  Hourly efficiency rating still makes flag rate useful. Book time tells you how many hours it should take a job. Still have them flag a line and close a line when done. Compare the hours flagged versus the hours the job should take. So if you flag 40 hours on 40 hours billed that is a 100% efficiency rating and they aren’t being lazy. If they flag 40 for 48 hours billed, they are at 120% efficiency. If they are at 40 flagged but 32 billed, they are at 80% efficiency and if this is a pattern behavior, you have a problem and can correct it through coaching or termination.

                  Obviously hourly rates will go down to account for slow weeks, but I would rather get 40 at 15 an hour every week than 18 at 25 to 30 hours. And to provide incentive to work over 100% efficiency, offer an extra 2.00 or 3.00, etc. For every hour over 40 billed.

                  The tech can make a concession and agree that at a 40 hour salary they are required to come in for their normal 50 hours.[/quote]

                  I like this. I like it a lot in fact as it does cover all the bases. Well done.

                  Lets be honest, many technicians have a big head or ‘ego’. Not saying that’s always a bad thing just a character trait that I’ve noticed.

                  #481055
                  BruceBruce
                  Participant

                    SpawnedX-Where are you located? I dont know what dealer techs make around here, middle Tennessee, but good independent shops pay $22-32/hour. Some that pay less, but most do not. Highest paid tech where I work currently I think is $28/hour.

                    #481063
                    Michele PensottiMichele Pensotti
                    Participant

                      Hi Eric!

                      I’ve just watched and, as usual, enjoyed your lates ETCG1 video 🙂

                      I could not agree with you more, and I mean it!

                      Every one of us should work every day to try to improve themselves and the kind of work, or ultimately, contribution to the world 🙂 , they give to the collectivity.
                      And it every one of us gives its best all of us will get the best possible world.

                      And I’m reminded of your “Ask not” video too!
                      Don’t ask for what your country (ANY country!!) can do for you, ask for whay you can do for your country (ANY country, AGAIN! 🙂 )

                      The problem I always see to be the culprit in every job is:
                      what’s the best way to evaluate any person’s job?

                      That’s the question!

                      Here in Italy we have this problem because in every workplace I’ve seen there always are the hard workers kind, the lazy ones, the “smart” ones, but which is which depends on WHO looks at them.

                      The old motto “don’t judge a man until you’ve walked in his shoes” is very very true.
                      And, alas, usually the person that has to evaluate a man’s job efficiency is someone that not only doesn’t understad that man’s job, but never did it himself, and so his judgement is completely off.
                      Also, sometimes a person feels frustrated ’cause doesn’t feel realized in doing the kind of job he’s doing, and this reflects heavily on his motivation end effort, but this doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a lazy person.
                      However maybe this person will start feeling that he’s a lazy person because doesn’t feel his quelities and abilities are used at their best, and will start acting lazy and uninterested in the quality of the work he’s doing.

                      In some businesses there are some special figures called “motivators”, who are just there to try and make these workers more appreciated and make them love the work they do; however this is , alas, an exception and not the rule.

                      As for the flatrate system, I think an hybrid system (part fixed salary and part flatrate) should really be adopted, BUT only along with a valid (and I mean REALLY VALID) way of evaluating a worker’s job quality and effectiveness is found and all the parts involved agree on it.

                      That’s my two cents! 😉

                      Live long and prosper and stay dirty you all! 🙂

                      10nico

                      #481079
                      SpawnedXSpawnedX
                      Participant

                        Superman: Rhode Island

                        #481348
                        WayneWayne
                        Participant

                          While I may not have a solution, I’m afraid you’re getting your terminology wrong. Flat rate is hourly, but during that period you’re only paid by what billable hours you’ve managed to do. Hourly is, well, hourly, no pay fluctuation either up or down. Salary is what you get per year regardless of the hours you put in, extra, or less. You normally put in quite a bit more in stretches, but then you can put that time for time off later(depending upon employer and if you get any free time).

                          As for the IT suggestion. Think again. While you can make more money, certainly easier, IT in the sense I think your suggesting(networking, general installation, troubleshooting, say A+ certs and the like) is flooded. And usually in the same boat. Normally contracted out anymore to companies willing to bid rather low, and as a consequence, pay low.

                          It would come down to specialization again, and education. Not necessarily “school” based. But if you really want a good job, learn whatever programming languages you can that are widely used, scripting, new technologies, etc.. Skill-set marketability is key.

                          Practically everyone I work with on a daily basis is Indian. And that’s not a “dey took our jobs!” thing, it’s because many, if not most, do not wish to put in the time/level-of-knowledge required beyond fixing a printer connection issue, or a hard-drive failure, so these are the only qualified people to apply.

                          This creates a crap-load of people qualified to fix a lot of moderate issues or install/setup/configure for many situations with free or off the shelf products, but very few to deliver actual overall solutions.

                          #481392
                          EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                          Keymaster

                            [quote=”Wayne613″ post=39870]While I may not have a solution, I’m afraid you’re getting your terminology wrong. Flat rate is hourly, but during that period you’re only paid by what billable hours you’ve managed to do. Hourly is, well, hourly, no pay fluctuation either up or down. Salary is what you get per year regardless of the hours you put in, extra, or less. You normally put in quite a bit more in stretches, but then you can put that time for time off later(depending upon employer and if you get any free time).

                            As for the IT suggestion. Think again. While you can make more money, certainly easier, IT in the sense I think your suggesting(networking, general installation, troubleshooting, say A+ certs and the like) is flooded. And usually in the same boat. Normally contracted out anymore to companies willing to bid rather low, and as a consequence, pay low.

                            It would come down to specialization again, and education. Not necessarily “school” based. But if you really want a good job, learn whatever programming languages you can that are widely used, scripting, new technologies, etc.. Skill-set marketability is key.

                            Practically everyone I work with on a daily basis is Indian. And that’s not a “dey took our jobs!” thing, it’s because many, if not most, do not wish to put in the time/level-of-knowledge required beyond fixing a printer connection issue, or a hard-drive failure, so these are the only qualified people to apply.

                            This creates a crap-load of people qualified to fix a lot of moderate issues or install/setup/configure for many situations with free or off the shelf products, but very few to deliver actual overall solutions.[/quote]

                            I get where you’re coming from and I admit that I was making something of a generalization however have you ever actually worked as a technician? I ask this because working as a technician is VERY different than working on your friends and families cars on the weekend. No matter how good you are things change dramatically once you start drawing a paycheck for it. That said I feel that based on my own experience and the experiences shared by many of my viewers that there is a real issue with the auto repair industry these days in the way that technicians are being treated and the way they are paid. I’m not saying I have the answers but at the very least I think getting a dialog like this going is the first step. I don’t work as a technician anymore but many of the people that watch my show do and if I can find some way to make their lives easier or bring them more respect that’s what I intend to do.

                            Thanks for your post and for your insight.

                            #481486
                            WayneWayne
                            Participant

                              As to what their take home pay might be, in contrast to what the median you had in mind for IT?

                              I really think in at least “most” instances, you’re situation would remain the same. Work is tough to find, actually far tougher in this instance, for the IT world as apposed to doing the far more usually physically demanding labor that car repair/diagnosis is. Not as many are quite so willing to jump in that boat for obvious reasons.

                              Should again, you get work, you might know exactly, or near enough at the end of the week where you’ll be monetarily, but I guarantee it won’t be as much as many are hoping for. And you will still be quite disposable. Deloitte for example doesn’t have the IT turn-over rate it has because they’re touchy-feely and all their employees leave because they got a great job elsewhere.

                              Worked as a technician? Automotive? No. Electrical, yes.

                              I’m great with giving people alternatives, much like electrical cars, but a few of those toting how great they are, green, etc, forget to mention they do have some seriously “non-green” manufacturing practices, and major costs behind them, even if most of it happens to people 6000-9000mi away (I still think they’re awesome as a side-note when done right, but I hate it when nobody wants to speak as to drawbacks of the batteries manufacturing for example, cost of, ownership overall cost over time, etc).

                              To me, people just need to see/realize the reality, not just jump ship into a lifeboat that is quite possibly full of as many holes, or just slightly less, than the boat they’re jumping off of. *shrug*

                              #481561
                              SpawnedXSpawnedX
                              Participant

                                I dont mean you offense Wayne, but until you work a flat rate job and truly understand how the system works, you are missing a huge junk of knowledge that makes what you are saying off by a bit.

                                I still would push someone into an industry, such as IT or electrical tech work for the simple fact that they are hourly or salary jobs. Flat rate aka piecework does not work anymore in the US, in Europe yes, because the Europeans still very much go to the dealerships for service work. If the auto industry wants good techs, than they need to make sure techs can have consistency in their paycheck to plan life around. No matter how you cut it, you are somewhere for 50 hours and may only get paid for 20, but your schedule makes it hard or next to impossible to supplement income. We are working full time hours and then some for part time pay. I love working on cars, but I need to know I will be getting paid enough to pay the basics like rent, utilities, insurances, food, etc. To provide for my family. Techs right now, more than ever, cannot plan for the future, nevermind retirement, because they dont even know if they will see enough hours come in to afford that electric bill and food shopping next week.

                                That is what has to change. Techs need to know that they will receive a consistent and livable check each week for the time they are at work.

                                #481577
                                WayneWayne
                                Participant

                                  If you feel I need to live it, in order to understand it, just won’t happen. And you might as well ignore me completely.

                                  I feel I can sympathize, if not empathize as to what flat rate is, and how it operates. The concept is not difficult.

                                  My point is, without being able to show a certain knowledge level, and in most cases an experience one, these pointed at IT jobs likely don’t exist, at the very least not in many areas. Base level, and middle level which is the inference to switch to here are even more swamped. The pay will likely be better, the sweat, pain, and BS levels will likely still be far less, but there are far less of them in those entry and middle level positions. Without a 4yr or better degrees in addition to passing certs most aren’t interested as they already have far more than they need of those doing installs, repairs, and upgrades. Electrical I can’t comment upon anymore. If you think the above is off for whatever reason, you’d have to cite me something as to why. Otherwise I think this is a half and half mix of both truth and “grass is greener” reactionary logic without much further examination as to the caveats involved to choosing other career paths.

                                  #482513
                                  EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                                  Keymaster

                                    The example of IT is something I threw out there based on the amount of comments and questions I get from IT people about the auto repair industry. I’ve found that number to be significant which is why I threw that out there. You are correct in that ‘the grass is always greener’ however this is particularly relevant in the auto repair industry. The main reason is not so much flat rate in my opinion but rather the ‘Labor shift’ which I’ve spoken of in other ETCG1 videos. You can actually do very well with flat rate IF the work is there. What’s been happening is that service work and repair work has morfed more into warranty work which does not pay nearly as much as customer pay work. In addition the existing labor times have been cut across the board over the past few years making it even more difficult to make a living wage as a technician. As SpawnedX pointed out it’s getting more difficult just to make ends meet with the current system. That said I’m having a harder time encouraging new techs to get into the field as a result of this. I would feel terrible sending someone off to pay for and learn a new profession just to find out that they not only are deeply in debt as a result of their tool expenses but also that they can’t make ends meet because they aren’t making a living wage. I think the recession has hit the repair industry quite hard and I haven’t seen many viable solutions come up to address this.

                                    I know the market for IT is flooded but that was just an example. I feel in this day and age you REALLY have to love working on cars to get into the business of auto repair. The main reason for this is because there aren’t many lucrative opportunities out there and the future is questionable. This does not change the NEED for new technicians however and I fear that if we don’t address this now there will be a BIG shortage of technicians in the field which would cause problems of it’s own. I think a good start would be to look at how technicians are paid and go from there. I feel this begins with putting the flat rate system under the microscope. Once that’s sorted out we can then focus on other things like training, customer satisfaction, and competency.

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