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Hello Eric, or whomever is reading this.
Maybe you did a video on this a while back and I havn’t seen it or maybe not. But I was watching your Car Audio Speaker replacement video, and you talked about doing solder wire connections. I remember you doing a video on how to solder wires together. I remember you said it makes a better connection then the crimp ones, and that you like the solder ones better.I think it would be interesting to go over the pros/cons of solder vs crimp.
Interesting enough to note: In the aviation industry, they prefer crimp connections to solder. Obviously there are limitations to how much and where you can put splices in aircraft wireing, but it’s the by the book proper way to do it. I’ve done both solder and crimp wire splicing on my own car. Personally, I prefer splices. I think it would be interesting to do both, and expose to some diffrent situations ect to see what one really does hold up better. Scientiffic meathod and all.Also, good job on your speaker replacement, it does sound alot better 🙂
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I’m going to chime in here with some electronic theory. In a speaker system, you have many frequencies traveling through the cables, thus I’m applying a frequency analysis for audio systems of 10Hz to 30kHz. This theory does not apply to sensors or things with DC voltage.
We all know that copper wires have a resistance. This is more formally known as DC steady state resistance. If we apply an AC frequency, you’ll notice that the observed impedance (a more complex form of measuring resistance) that the impedance changes due to the skin effect (a physics phenomena where current does not like to travel down the center of a wire, but only its skin.)
. The crux of the argument is that your high end 20kHz frequencies will be dampened/reduced, up to about 34%. For higher frequencies the loss is even more dramatic, but for audio frequencies its not much. In the end, your connections account for very little length of the total run of the wire, so I don’t expect less than 3% difference.
In the end, for audio frequencies a solder is a better connection than a crimp, but not by much. But be careful about bad solder connections which look good on the outside but fail to get sucked into the copper.
Interesting topic. That does sound like it would make a good video. I think it would be great if I could get an electronics expert to come in and talk about it however. I’ll look into it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I had the same thought that started this post and started running pros and cons my self. I am in electrical engineer classes but have no training in crimp connectors. What i do know is it all depends. I have had bad luck with the cheap crimps, but the costly ones you heat up and epoxy melts and seals the end work good. now for solder. the big thing here is type of solder used. acid is involved with the flux and does bad things if not cleaned correctly. the high heat also cause issues to the insulation of the wires.
You also have to consider that a solder connection is going to face a lot more strain in a high vibration environment like a car than a crimp, but I still go for solder personally, always had problems with cheap crimps.
Before retirement I worked for an electrical utility. In substations panels, and these are large walk in affairs that house all the equipment that guard and operate the electrical system, were thousands (no exaggeration) of crimp connections. The connectors they used didn’t look any different than what you would buy at ACE Hardware. Now these connectors were ring style connectors used to terminate wires, bayonet connectors were not used (or if they were they were rare). Anyway, connector failure was never a problem. If we had a wring problem it was usually traced to a cracked circuit board.
For one, the wiring was kept dry. Also, the wiremen used a special more expensive pliers that produced a uniform crimp. The more expensive tool I think is the secret.
I work in the aerospace industry (think launchpads, not runways) and we use crimps and soldered joints fairly interchangeably. Initial assembly and bench-work is typically soldered. Yet while making repairs or modifications on the spacecraft, we use crimp connections almost exclusively. This is because it’s easy to reproduce a functional joint in difficult to reach places, or from uncomfortable working positions.
I’ve seen this debated many times, with PROS and CONS ranging from the fairly compelling to complete B.S. But here’s something to think about… regardless of what type of connection you make on a wire, it’ll eventually end in a crimp. Every connector on your vehicle is filled with pins and spade lugs that are crimped on to their respective wires.
McWicked, would you mind giving us some good pointers on how to make good crimps and what tools/ crimps are preferred in the aerospace field . also anyone in aviation care to chime in?
I know some are far better than others. hoping for a good source for crimps and tools.[quote=”DragonSung” post=108132]McWicked, would you mind giving us some good pointers on how to make good crimps and what tools/ crimps are preferred in the aerospace field . also anyone in aviation care to chime in?
I know some are far better than others. hoping for a good source for crimps and tools.[/quote]I really can’t offer advice on specific brands of crimpers. The crimpers I use at work span many brands and are routinely calibrated by our in house metrology lab. As such, they are are prohibitively expensive and provide levels of adjustment that are not required for automotive work. The most important thing you can do is buy the correct crimping tool for the type of splice you are making, and make sure the tool is set to the correct gauge of wire. You don’t want to go the hack route, and smash them on using the crappy “crimper” found on many pliers and wire strippers.
As for the crimps and splices themselves, I strongly recommend purchasing the transparent polyethylene style crimps and lugs. Unlike the cheapo plastic ones from the auto parts store, these allow you to visually inspect your connection after you’re done. There are plenty of good websites and videos demonstrating good crimping practices, so google is your friend.
One thing I forgot to mention is that there is also a “middle ground” you can consider. They’re called heat shrink solder sleeves. They’re great. All you need is a good strong heat gun. Zero soldering skill required. Slide ’em over your connection, heat ’em up until the solder melts and the tubing shrinks, and you’re done. Nice clean moisture-proof connections done easy. But like I said, you need a good heat gun, or else you’ll end up with a cold solder joint.
Good Luck
[quote=”DragonSung” post=108132]also anyone in aviation care to chime in?[/quote]
Sure,
Here are the crimp tools we use,
https://www.dmctools.com/Products/crimp_tools.html[quote=”McWicked” post=108105]regardless of what type of connection you make on a wire, it’ll eventually end in a crimp. Every connector on your vehicle is filled with pins and spade lugs that are crimped on to their respective wires.[/quote]
Very well said…. And worth repeating…
-Karl
Lived in submarines for 8 years; worked in a shipyard for 18 years. Submarines have a zillion crimped connectors (more or less).
First rule of crimp club: Make sure the connector is the right size for your wire. They are commonly available in yellow, blue, red. Yellow is 10-12 ga. Blue is 14-16 ga. Red is 18-20 ga. There are others, but they are not commonly seen.
Second rule of crimp club: The cheap crimpers commonly available for a few dollars do not make good crimps. The ratchet type that won’t release until the crimp is right is used for all shipboard use; the brand names are expensive but even Harbor Fright $13 dollar ones work well.
After you crimp a connector, tug on it. If it comes off it wasn’t right.
As somebody above pointed out you can get ones with heat shrink seals that protect the joint.
Brand name terminals seem to work better than cheap ones. They aren’t that expensive in bulk.That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
[quote=”DBFSubs21!” post=109280]
First rule of crimp club: Make sure the connector is the right size for your wire. They are commonly available in yellow, blue, red. Yellow is 10-12 ga. Blue is 14-16 ga. Red is 18-20 ga. There are others, but they are not commonly seen.Second rule of crimp club: The cheap crimpers commonly available for a few dollars do not make good crimps. The ratchet type that won’t release until the crimp is right is used for all shipboard use; the brand names are expensive but even Harbor Fright $13 dollar ones work well.
After you crimp a connector, tug on it. If it comes off it wasn’t right.
As somebody above pointed out you can get ones with heat shrink seals that protect the joint.
Brand name terminals seem to work better than cheap ones. They aren’t that expensive in bulk.
[/quote]Very well put.
With as much traffic as this thread is getting, I need to seriously consider making a video on this topic. It may not happen this year, but I’ll be looking into it early next year.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=109352]With as much traffic as this thread is getting, I need to seriously consider making a video on this topic. It may not happen this year, but I’ll be looking into it early next year.[/quote]
It’d be a great general purpose video.
Due to my line of work, I’ve had to get and maintain a fleet of crimp and solder certifications. NASA Basic and Advanced Solder, Advanced Electronic Solder, 2MMTR Navy certs… you get the gist. All told I have over 200+ hours in classroom training along with 15+ years of practical demonstrations. Now we’ll just ignore the fact, that every solder I’ve performed for work was twice inspected under magnification… and despite the fact that said work is now comfortably on orbit above the earth… I was told by the guy at the local RC hobby shop in town “You can’t solder for sh#t!”
So the comments section should be fun as always. 😛
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