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Here is a question I’d like to offer up to the community, especially those engineers or mechanics out there….
Let’s assume you’re the type of driver that likes to get on the throttle a bit, accelerate hard, a little spirited driving now and again.
Which engine is more durable, – 4, 6, 8 cylinder engine? Which configuration is more durable inline (straight) or V configuration?
You probably heard the saying – A smaller engine working harder to do the same job as a larger engine working less hard. Okay, so is that statement just a material fact or does it equate to durability and longevity of the engine? The four cylinder obviously works at higher RPM’s so will it will wear out faster?
I’ve also heard it said that V configured engines are not as durable as inline (straight) configured engines, due to their particular physics – Their forces on pistons, rods and crankshafts. Is there some truth to that?
Could it also be that because V8 engines typically have more torque and HP, they tend to be driven much harder, and durability isn’t as great as a 6 or 4?
When I look at engines of past and present, I see many inline 6 cylinders doing very well overall – From Ford inline 6’s like in the early 60’s mustang’s. BMW inline 6 doing much better than their V8 (from what I hear). That said though, the Chevy 350 V8, which has been around forever, has proven to be a workhorse. But then again we’ve all seen 4 cylinder Honda and Toyota engines lasting for hundreds of thousands of miles.
So what gives? What are some of the real facts?
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Honestly it depends from engine to engine. As you can probably tell I’m more of a Ford guy but I still have respect for GM products. the 350 Chevy is a very reliable engine and if well maintained can easily go to 300,000 miles even when raced a fair amount in it’s life. I know from personal experience because my own grandfather who loves to race his old Cheyenne 1500 now has 290,000 miles with the original 350 unrebuilt but it is still VERY peppy. Now when it comes to Ford’s you can choose the 300 I6, those are known for going well over 500,000 miles unrebuilt, however you won’t have the peppiness of the Chevy. they have great low end torque but they have a very limited top end. They are basically gasoline powered diesels if you look at the design of them. ford V8’s aren’t as reliable as the Chevys but can keep up with them on the road if they are well maintained. overall, if you wan’t speed and cheapness in the repairs, I would go with the chevy, if you wan’t a really long lasting engine that can get off the line really fast but has a bad top speed, go with the Ford
any more comments regarding the original post?
any personal experiences with certain engines anyone would like to share?
I can only speak in generalities here, but this is my two cents. Every motor is flawed in its own way and some more than others. Deep down in the engineering DNA, assuming the metallurgy is all equal, motors are not created all equally. Its hard to make a comparison other than saying the obvious… Is a low power Honda 4 cylinder with some engineering that is second to none last longer than an Iron V8 engine with canted valves and side loading on the valve guides thrown it with a very heavy reciprocating bottom end going to last as long ? Not a matter of V vs Inline configuration as to overall designing details. One engine may have been engineered to give a bunch of a power for a shorter life span where as the other was engineered with a fine tooth comb to last for a long time by limiting compression, port size, valve spring pressures, all sorts of things the normal driver doesn’t think of. What was the engineers original intent ? I think that comes down to knowing a particular engine and know its weak points before making any general assumption. This is what drives me crazy about people in the aftermarket taking engines or whole cars and attempting to make them do things they were not designed to do and complaining when they fail. The best quality tool will fail when misused.
I will use my own personal knowlege and give an example I know quite well and have spent decades working on.
If one was to order a 1969 Dodge Coronet in 1969, for example, the buyer could go all the way from basically a 318 cubic inch motor to a 426 cubic inch Hemisperical headed engine.
Aside from the cubic inches, assume that was not in the equasion, what did the same factory do to make one last 300,000 and the other a constant mechanical headache…being that the same car could have either…
The other thing to consider is this, the majority of the people wanted, and still want something that would last many trouble free miles, where as only a fraction of buyers would deal with the other engine that had a whole list of mechanical compromises made in the way of more output but overall life span, by maybe 1/6 or less, depending on other factors..If I was to ramp up the power on one and downgrade the other would reliability be inversly proportionate ? Absolutley not as engines are generally designed from the ground up with at least more of a purpose, making them not universally reliable by their own very nature.
This is why I always stick to the fact that if somebody wants a car to last and last and last, buy a car an old person would have bought new, boring colors, smaller engine, versus, say and Orange mustang with a blower or something that may have not only questionable owners and treatment, but overall vehicle purpose.
To be honest just others have said in this thread it depends on who made the engine etc. Normally when looking at an engine just look up how long that engine was in production and it will prolly give you a good indicator of its durability. Most car manufacturers prolly dont want to deal with the headache of supporting a bad design long term if they dont have too.
Just to give some examples
Honda B series engines 1989–2001
Chrysler Slant six 1959–2000
GM 3800 series 1961-2008
Chevy 350 1955–2003[quote=”TCC” post=132869] any personal experiences with certain engines anyone would like to share?[/quote]
one of the reasons I was mentioning the Ford 300 I6 and the Chevy 350 was because of personal experience I already said my story about 350, but the Ford I have some good experiences with too, I remember my fathers truck (which had the same exact drive train as my current truck) He was driving it one day and then a it started clacking. it sounded similar the an old school diesel, very loud and mechanical sounding. the truck made it home and then my father called my grandfather (this was a long time ago before cell phones were very prominent at least in my family and also my dad knows nothing about fixing cars), my grandfather said it sounded like a lifter was sticking and to simply add in a quart of slick 50 (this was the old formula with like 50% Teflon in it, not the new crappy formula), he added it in and tafter about maybe 5 minutes of running the clacking was completely gone and he got another 200,000 miles out of this truck before he sold it, and at that point it was still running great.
Ford 300 I6: 1965-1996
As far as milking the life out of old engines, inline fords and slant 6 mopars come to mind, 318 in a dodge, all good stuff. I do not, consider a small block chevy as good as a long standing reliable engine as the ones listed above. Stock their valve trains look like something from the land of crap. Great engine to race, but day to day its just another one of a hundred-thousand mile or less Iron oil leakers. If you ever compared a small block chrysler inside to a regular small chevy, its obvious chevy cheaped out on all they could compared to mother Mopar. With the advent of the newer GM LS motors, I think GM took a whole bunch of the design from the small block ford which I do love, but the small ford an absolute pip squeak in stock form with dime size valves and an egr bump in the exhaust port that murders exhaust flow. After market they can be made to fly, but once again short lived. Pretty much all motors on cars now last better than they once did due to technology.
The 318 360 are both good engines. The 440 too. Ill tell ya another engine that is often overlooked is Subaru boxer engines just about all of em are really well made.
I think the 318 had a particular reputation for holding up as it had a little better rod angle than a 360 and smaller valves which limited its RPM potential making it run for ever. Chrysler blocks from the years of 1960 something to the later 70s their block material was super. That and a 727 behind was about that was a about the pinnacle of American longevity. Funny thing, the cars they were put in were not as well made as some other brands (rusty unibodys), so mostly now what is seen is old Dodge trucks with them. Most Cordobas and the likes got run into the ground decades ago sad to say. Most C body Chryslers with big blocks suffered an even worse fate, but their 383s and 440s live on in other places.
My grandfathers 1983 Dodge Ram had a 360 in it and lasted well up till 1998 till my dad wrapped the truck around a telephone pole at 40 mph and screwed up the truck I could imagine that truck would still be here today if my dad didnt decide it was fun to mix Quaaludes and cheap vodka one night >_>
Great engine to race, but day to day its just another one of a hundred-thousand mile or less Iron oil leakers.
Too true.
This is a can of worms my friend. Driving for 40 years. Here is some personal experiences with good and bad 4, 6 and 8 cyl vehicles.
67 Ford F350, 6 cyl. Beat it regularly, never had an issue. Good on gas. Ran when junked.
64 Chrysler Newport, 383 gas hog. Car rotted out at 161k, engine placed in a different car, was strong last I knew.
Two 65 Codas’, both 225 slant six, had the 4 speed stick for 16 years and near 200k. I really seriously beat it. I had to replace the rear end twice, the clutch and driveshaft once. The car rotted out. Never had an issue with the power plant. Really good on gas. Note: I had an Isky 270 duration 410 lift racing cam in it, a one barrel Holley and a very liberal exhaust. It had serious torque, and I had hit 30 MPG on cruises. Amazing. The automatic was killed by my brother. He let it run out of oil.
Dads 63 or 64 American Motors Rambler, 6 cyl, would never start when it rained, had it for years, could never fix it. Gas hog. Scraped.
Company 61 Chevy Wagon, 283 v8, engine was bullet proof but pathetically slow and was a serious gas hog. Rotted out.
Moms 73 Imperial, 440 Gas hog. Died young from neglect, idiot ran it low on oil, I rebuilt it and he tried drag racing 200 miles later and spun the bearings. Another friend had a state police Fury with same engine, 200K, no issues. Gas hog. Rotted out.
Moms 73 Buick Riviera, V8 455 Gas hog, a monster of an engine, never had an issue. Sold at 90k.
Dads 71 Lincoln Mark III, 460 V8 Gas hog, super beast, never had an issue. Sold around 80k
Company 58 Cadillac Limousine, 472 v8, never had an issue. rotted out.
Company 1970’s 2 Ford LTD’s, 350 v8 Gas hogs, engines where great, cars where junk.
Company 1972 Ford Country Wagon, 350 v8, fair on gas, never had engine issues.
Company 78 Ford F350, v8 Gas hog, The Crank started leaking out the back, the bearings failed, engine toast at 80k. Sold.
Friends 71 Olds 442, BIG v8 400 block super Gas hog, 4mpg on the thruway, but it put out 600HP. We called it the toilet bowl. You could almost see the gas gauge drop. Died early, seems that engine had undersized oil return Journals. The main bearings spun 3000 miles after a complete rebuild. Sold.
Wife’s 84 Renault Alliance, 4 cyl died as 144K, timing chain broke, engine toast. Good on gas. Scrapped.
Grandpas 1970 ish. Chevy Vega aluminum sleeve 4 cyl, had chronic issues, known issue: cast iron cylinder sleeves where prone to fall into the engine block. Good on gas. Car died with less than 50K.
Grandpa had a 6 cyl Studebaker before I was born, ran it into the ground, engine was solid.
Grandpas 1960’s Ford Fairlane, 6 cyl, the car flew and never had issues.
Dads 1962 Ford Falcon 6 cyl, ran excellent, Good on gas. Traded on a 64 T-bird.
64 T-bird 390 v8 Gas hog, ran that for many years, never had engine issues.
84 Ford Taurus 6cyl good on gas, ran strong to 120k, but got totaled.
Mom in laws 86 Mazda GLC 4 cyl gas hog. Engine had overheated and burned up at 88K. Got it running, smoked, burned oil, Rotted out.
My first love, 76 Toyota Corolla SR5 2 dr coupe, 4 Cyl, rusted out from under me at 100K, was in a flood, had sat for 2 years in the field. Good on gas. Went to haul it away and it still started and ran, just could not pass inspection.
Moms 76 Monte Carlo, 350 v8, good on gas, the cam disintegrated at 50K, seems at that time GM was making soft cams, it was a known issue. Repaired with hot cam, totaled by my brother 3 years later.
Dad in laws Second generation Ford Festiva, nothing but problems. Good on gas. No engine issues. Korean made 3 cyl. if memory serves. Over-glorified motor cycle with doors. Broke the spark plugs trying to do normal maintenance, Wheel bearings and half shafts failed early, brakes wore out fast, sold it quick at 50k. Not much better than a Yugo.
My close friend has 96 Ford SHO v8, a gas hog. The car is fast but constantly frying ignition coils every few months for years now. Keeps him broke buying coils. There are eight of them and they are expensive. 6 and 8 cyl, produced by Yamaha for Ford, cam sprocket failed, another known SHO issue. Had the cam welded. Good since then, bar the frying coil issue.
He also has an 86 BMW 2dr custom coupe, around 200K I think. Strong engine, but a gas hog. The car is always breaking something. He is a mechanic and spends as much time working on it as driving it. But when it works, WOW. Insanely fast.
2 Toyota P/U’s, 80 and 84, both 4 cyl, ran till trucks rotted out, ran strong. Good on gas.
86 Pontiac Grand Prix, 6 cyl, fair on gas, died around 140k, oil pump failure, another known GM issue.
98 Ford Escort 4 cyl, ran 17 yrs, over 160k, ran strong, rotted out. Good on gas.
99 Honda Accord 4 cyl, 250,000 miles, engine is strong and still driven. Good on gas.
02 Acura TL 3.2 6 cyl. fair on gas. 172k, running like new, my second love. Quick, luxurious and classy.The grand champion… 1954 propane powered Farmall Super H tractor, as old as I am with a 4 cyl is still running and used to this day. It starts instantly and burns no oil. Wow.
My first choice, any Honda Product, they have outlasted everything else I have ever owned.
Second choice, Toyota 4 cyl’s, really tough. I tortured those vehicles, and they took it.
Third choice, those old Mopar slant 6 engines rev forever. For more than a decade, I had my 225 slant 6 Cuda screaming and it never failed me.
Last choice, any GM engine. I have had the worst performance and fortune with them.
I know I missed a few cars. I am pretty sure I have over a million miles under my belt. I hope this helps a little. Make, model and year mean a lot. I believe the V 6-8 engines came later then the 4, 6 and 8 inline engines, so they are more time proven. For what it’s worth.Wow That is a lot of cars. I kinda wish Chrysler would bring the slant six back. I loved that engine. One of my Grandfathers friends had a Slant six powered Coronet. I was always interested in buying it till he died and his family sent it off the scrap heap 🙁
I’m going to say that the number of cylinders and their disposition in relation to the crankshaft has little to do with durability. Some layouts are naturally better balanced and smoother running than others, but that doesn’t mean the “shakers and thumpers” are wearing themselves out more quickly than the smooth-running engines. A lumpy Harley engine is every bit as long-lived as a purring Slant Six.
What really determines the durability of an engine is the metallurgy, the quality of finish machining and assembly tolerances, the effectiveness of the lubrication and cooling systems, the state of tune, and most importantly: the quality of maintenance and how the engine is used.
For example, the old Slant Six has a well-deserved reputation for being robust and durable. However, a Slant Six in a work truck regularly used for hauling bricks, bags of cement and building materials through the Colorado Rockies is not going to last as long as the Slant Six in Aunt Ethel’s Valiant hauling groceries in Kansas.
You can make any engine last forever if you treat it right. Take the same engine to the local drag strip or hill climb every Sunday and you run the risk of it becoming a hand grenade.
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