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Topic
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engine: GA15DE chassis: N15
Alright this might be a tricky one because it’s a bit of a model specific question and I don’t think they exist in the US. But i’ll upload pictures and try to be as descriptive as possible.
This is my first attempt at a clutch replacement and I haven’t done much more than change oil in cars so all advice is welcome.
I’ve been trying to reinstall the transmission for hours and hours over the past week but I’m pretty well stuck. I have tried every plausible angle I can think of but I just can’t seem to get enough clearance between the engine and the trans.
So I’m thinking I need to split the trans. But I have a few questions surrounding this…
1. Would it be best to remove the left side of the transmission so that the input shaft can be removed, bolt up the rest of the trans and then reinstall the input shaft without having to deal with the bulk.
a) Do you need to do anything fancy to make sure the input shaft is going through the middle of the bell housing or just bolt it up and if it fits it’s ok?
b) Should I expect gears and springs and things to fall out when I open it up and then spend another 20 hours figuring out where it all goes?
2. Or would it be easier unwind the bolts on the right side as far as they go without completely removing the bolts? That way I can hopefully move the part that is catching on the back of the engine just enough to seat and line up the input shaft.
3. Or should I use an angle grinder to nip the points of contact back slightly?The closest I have got so far is the bell housing completely covering the pressure plate, but I can’t shift the bell housing forward far enough to clear the flywheel. I think the middle of the input shaft is touching the edge of the clutch spline. It takes A LOT of wiggling on different angles to get it this close though.
This is the top down view of the trans
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qZzlpOTRkVUpqdmoxR1B4ZHVPUVR4T3FuS09RHere is the left side
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qVkhkT0VkSHo5NG0xUHRzZGFZODFfbnBLaVdRRight side
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qTFFkdXBNOXl5Y2ZaQ2MwbXV4M1AxSkxFTjFBFront
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qa1RlZlprT29aMlp0cXlkUXlzdTM1a2l6d2xnBack
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qLTNpa1Qzb0ZNRG1SSDh0djZhLWI2YkRFV1pj
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Are you 100% certain the clutch is installed correctly?
You wouldn’t be the first to mount it backwards. ( not trying to insult you.)
Did you used the clutch alignment tool to center the clutch on to the flywheel.
It sounds as if the transmission input shaft splines are not meshing with the clutch.
You may need to rotate the input shaft to get the proper alignment.
Being that your transmission is an odd shape, it may take some creative fiddling and a second person to get it to line up properly.
One other item…
[b][i]3. Or should I use an angle grinder to nip the points of contact back slightly?
[/i][/b]
No No No do not grind anything!
If the job is done correctly the engine and transmission will mate together with little to no effort if everything is installed correctly and in alignment.
DO NOT force them together.Haha All good. I like to think I’m a bit harder to offend than that.
I am 100% on that one. the side of the clutch that sticks out more is facing towards the transmission. Also I can see written on the exposed side of the clutch disk, through the pressure plate, “T/M Side” written on it. Although that does raise an interesting point. Maybe the spline of the oem clutch is thinner than the spline of the replacement one. Actually I could measure that without removing it, will check tomorrow.
Yes I also did use the clutch alignment tool. that slips in and out no problem and there doesn’t appear to have been any slippage of the clutch while i’ve been maneuvering the trans over and over. The alignment tool also fits into the old clutch fine so it must be the same diameter.
I don’t think I have managed to get the middle of the input shaft all the way to the middle of the clutch yet. I think I’m at least 5mm (0.197 inch) or more off and it’s really hard to fathom where I’m going to get that much movement from.
Get the transmission in to the point where the tip of the input shaft is bumping against the clutch. Then use a mirror-on-a-stick between the block and bell housing to see what tiny adjustment is still needed. Adjust and repeat. Once it’s perfectly aligned, the tranny will pretty much fall into place.
That’s actually quite brilliant relative4. Thanks I’ll give it a go.
In the mean time I have measured the depth of the clutch spline on the old and new clutches and the old one appears to protrude outward further so I should already be at an advantage.
Alright I’ve now spent upwards of 50 hours just trying to install the trans over the past few weeks and I’m still a long way off.
It’s not really a question of which way to the input shaft needs to move in order to seat it. It’s quite clear the bell housing isn’t going to clear the flywheel unless it comes forward more. I did manage to get it far enough forward so the bell housing fits over the flywheel and the input shaft easily slides into the clutch by itself. I managed to do this by putting the trans on quite an extreme angle so the bell housing fits over the flywheel while the rear output shaft is almost on the ground. I was convinced this is the way it was meant to be done but after hours of faffing about I can see the right axle housing wouldn’t clear the lip of the sump when the rear output shaft is jacked up anyway. I also called an auto shop and asked if the sump needs to be dropped in order to install the trans on these cars. They said no so i’m back to the drawing board.
After spending so many hours on it I can pretty much feel every contact point there is and I still can’t see any possible way of getting the clearance. I would like to revisit the idea of splitting the trans to get a bit more wiggle room. Maybe I should ask the auto shop if it needs to be split in order to reinstall it but they probably don’t like being used as google.
Would it help you guys if I made a youtube video of me trying to position the thing so you can see what’s going on?
My tricky manual transmission process:
1. Put a small amount of molybdenum or copper grease on the input shaft splines, not too much as to fling out and contaminate the clutch
2. Modify two transmission bolts, to act as guides, by cutting the head off and then notching them for post-installation extraction with a flathead screwdriver.
3. If that doesn’t work then rotate the input shaft ever so slightly and repeat the install a few times
4. If this hasn’t worked then I pull the clutch back out and re-align it even if I think it looks straight.
5. Finally, if all of that hasn’t worked then most likely something has been installed incorrectly such as the release fork or bearing.Best of luck
A flat head alignment bolt. That’s genius. Unfortunately I don’t think it will work for me because If I jack the transmission level (so all the bolt holes line up), the speed sensor housing really digs into the back of the engine. Ideally I’d keep the bell housing in the same location and drop the rear of the trans a little so that the speed sensor housing sits in a cut away below the engine and the right side axle bolt housing sits above the lip of the oil pan. But I’ve spent many many hours even days in that location without even being able to get the tapered nose of the input shaft into the clutch where as I can easily achieve this on an even steeper angle.
TBH I’ve had enough of this. I’d rather have a hack car that’s easy to work on than a factory car that’s a nightmare to work on so here’s the plan…
1. Drop the trans for the 20th time and double check the clutch is still aligned.
2. I’m going to remove part of the exhaust covering the oil pan even if it means breaking at least half of the 5 seized bolts.
3. Remove the sump.
4. Seat the trans on a steep angle. I’m almost certain I can push it evenly all the way to the tip of the doweling without an oil pan in the way.
5. Begin jacking the rear of the trans and check the clearance as I go. If it looks like I can use a grinder without creating leaks then I will use that.At least this way I will feel like I’m making progress again. Will let you know how it goes.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qelEzZzhsbzNveVlaZkFzbVBpU1JHaU40TDI4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qM3BQS1dRSzl1Zy0zZ2ZGX0s3ZURBYk1oNU9j
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qUkZDNWZ1QnNTNWJPQnBTdmwtSWNoajdKTVBj
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qQnNHXzBBVVlTdG96R2dZQm5EMjY3dVFPc0JjI’m looking at those pictures and I must say that does look very cramped. And you’re so close!
Normally, I would have pulled the engine and transmission as one unit if I were to expect such conditions. However, you’re a bit further into things and so close that maybe we can try this another way.
For $60 US, an engine brace can be had. They are very helpful and can even be replicated at home using a pipe and chain. I say this because you could let the transmission-end of the engine down an inch or so and that should buy you some much needed clearance. You may even get two inches if the pipes and hoses will allow.
Perhaps this would be ultimately simpler than modifying parts and or removing the sump?The engine is already being held up by a tie down connected to one of the rafters in the roof. I wasn’t really expecting to leave it there this long but luckily the roof still looks ok. I noticed etcg drops the transmission end of the engine as well on the 2002 ford focus but I think that is because he doesn’t have enough space between the chassis and the transmission. I have plenty of lateral clearance. I opted not to move the engine down because the exhaust is still attached and It’s not really going to change the position of the engine relative to the transmission. It will just mean I have to push the trans up hill instead of horizontally.
I threw every youtube method I watched for removing seized bolts at the exhaust and managed to get it off surprisingly easily. (penetrating oil over a number of days + heat + tapping + 6 point socket) Not a single bolt or stud snapped. Some of them, which I knew were close to breaking before, didn’t even feel close this time so I was impressed.
Now that the sump is off, the transmission will slide a little further on. I think the tapered nose is inside the flywheel and the spline is through the clutch but not quite the flywheel yet.
The next point of contact is the bell housing gasket. As you can see in the pics it won’t let the transmission slide on any further because of the cast aluminum bulge in the way. I can’t move the trans up any further because of the right side axle housing protruding up into the base of the engine.
So I’m going to cut the bell housing gasket back so that the bolt hole becomes a semi circle. Then I’ll put the trans back on and slide it all the way to the tip of the doweling before marking which part of the engine base needs to be ground out. I’ll take a little out of the axle bolt housing as well. Then I think It should just be a matter of jacking up the rear till the doweling lines up, push it in the last bit, and bolt it up finally.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qbHVSUTZxM3ZkMVdXUWxrb05jazZabGJKdlNB
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qTW5VQnZwdkxySXliSWZtbDB3QS1XUUozbFNj
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3YxveZla4qNTNEV1c1RFY0UEFnRnRMTXhGbXc5RS1YaFpVSuccess!
I could have shaved around 1 month or 60 hours from this repair job if I had known this so I’m going to be as detailed as possible here.
The key is to force it with the jack. But you need to know where to apply force and this is the part that really took all the time to figure out. Hopefully the following guide will save you a lot of time if you stumble across this on google.
1. Jack, lift, pulley, or crane up the bell housing end of the transmission until you can slide the input shaft in. If you still have the sump on you will probably also need to jack up the rear of the transmission at the same time so that it clears the sump. The main thing here is the right side axle housing needs to be below the base of the engine or the lip of the sump.
2. Slide the transmission in far enough. Back at the beginning of this thread I took 2 pictures showing the back of the engine. You will see two shiny parts because I spent so much time rubbing them with the transmission. The shiny part on the right is where the right axle bolt housing rubs against the lip of the sump/engine base. You need to push the transmission in far enough to clear the bump in the sump lip/engine base. If the front of the bell housing is touching the doweling that’s great but you have gone too far. The tip of the input shaft is now in the flywheel which is going to reduce the flexibility needed for the next manoeuvre. Just back it out slightly.
3. Jack up the rear of the transmission until the right axle bolt housing is riding against the base of the engine or sump lip.
4. Push the right axle back as far as you can. This will cause the input shaft to twist the clutch a little but it’s necessary if you want to avoid the grinder.
5. Jack up the rear of the gearbox. The gearbox will begin to lift the engine. Give it a wiggle and it should find it’s way around the base of the engine. If not Jack it up a bit more and give it another wiggle.
6. Keep jacking until everything lines up and bolt it together.
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