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The foxy build

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  • #550766
    dandan
    Moderator

      Car 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GP Base model

      CAR DESRIPTION
      2008 Pontiac Grand Prix “Base Model”.
      Engine. 3800 Series III L-26 (note this may change in the future)
      Transmission. 4T65E (note this may change in the future)
      uni body construction. GM W Body

      the 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix was the last Grand Prix before Pontiac discontinued the Grand Prix, it is the base model, so basic in fact that it doesn’t even have ABS or Traction control, no sunroof and all the simple accessories. the 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix i also believe was the last car too feature the 3800 engine based off the Buick 231 V6. the car also has a single muffler, doesn’t have the y pipe most Pontiac grand Prix cars are known for.

      engine too date
      the engine in this car is the primary reason why i bought the car, the 3800 series III was the last 3800 engine produced before it was discontinued and replaced buy 60 degree V6 engines like the 3500 and 3900 engines. unlike most modern engines there are several features that set the 3800 from the rest. the 3800s primary construction is cast iron, this includes the block and heads, the oil pan upper and lower intake manifold plenum and timing chain cover are made of aluminum, and the rocker covers are made of plastic. the engines compression ratio is 9.4-1 and its bank is 90 degrees, the improvements over the earlier series II engine the L-36 was non return fuel system, all aluminum intake, electronic throttle control, the engine is rated at 200HP which i truly think is a generous rating when the earlier L-36 was rated at 205HP, and the L-26 series III 3800 features a larger throttle body with a bore exceeding 70MM, improved intake ports, larger intake and exhaust valves, and powder forged steel connecting rods in which where stiffer than the stock L-36 rods… i would not be afraid too put a power number of 210HP on this engine or more stock because without a doubt in my mind there is more power too this engine than the older L-36 engines in which i have experience driving.

      this engine has proven over the years too be quite robust, with regular maintenance these engines are known for cresting over 500,000 miles, i have personal experience with the robustness of these engines, and have seen cases where engines are heavily modified too the point with stock bottom ends, where engines would rate exceeding 500HP at the wheels before eventual connecting rod failure, the supercharged versions L-67 and L-32 are even more robust yet because of there heavier duty connecting rods. because they are so durable and powerful stock, there is a massive aftermarket parts market for these engines, smaller supercharger pullies, turbo conversions, larger fuel injectors, ceramic coated pistons, ratio rockers, heavy duty connecting rods and rod bolts, high performance ignition coils and wires, aftermarket camshafts of many kinds, chrome molly push rods, stiffer valve springs, high performance cylinder heads the list goes on and on! it is also important too note a special version of this car the GXP comes equipped with the 5.3L LS-4 V8 engine rated stock at over 300HP too the crank!

      Transmission too date
      the transmission in this car is a 4T65E Trans axle, a very common transmission for GM w body cars over the years, its a 4 speed automatic transmission with a torque converter clutch, so it in many ways feels like a 5 speed, 1st 2nd gear are under drive 3rd is 1:1 and 4th is overdrive with a 3.05 final, the torque converter clutch pretty much locks the input shaft with the crankshaft in essence allowing more direct drive allowing efficiency that would otherwise be lost through the slip of the torque converter. the improvements of the later 4T65E Transmissions include hardened overdrive splines including other things, that would commonly strip on earlier versions of these cars, with regular maintenance i find the transmissions in these cars can be reliable, but if maintenance is neglected for any reason it may be proven otherwise! there are lots of sensors in the transmission that are easily gummed up buy old transmission fluid, if the fluid is not changed on regular service intervals the transmissions life can be severely shortened. the heavier duty version of this transmission the 4T65E-HD has a beefier limited slip differential and some if its internal components are hardened and strengthened, these transmissions are in the GTP, GTX and GXP, and cars out of pontiac include the Buick Regal GS Chevrolet Impala SS and Chevrolet Monticarlo SS, unfortunately there is no manual transmission option for these cars but the GXP and GTP Comp G have paddle shifters.

      PLANNED MODIFICATIONS!
      i do not want too go too far from stock but i want too make the car my own as i always do, make it look a little more sporty, now that i have a decent income i can afford parts and have already made one upgrade which i will take pictures of later, but here are my plans.

      .aftermarket intake (INSTALLED)
      .Magnaflow/thrush turbo muffler (INSTALLED)
      .Accel super coils (INSTALLED)
      .MSD spark plug wires(INSTALLED)
      .AC Delco Rapid Fire spark plugs (WENT WITH AC DELCO IRIDIUM)
      .stiffer dog bone engine mount bushings (FLIPPED)
      .a little bit of paint work, stripes on fender, paint decorative spoiler black, paint rocker panels black, paint some of the under hood stuff engine orange and add a few more decorative touches.
      .stiffer swaybars
      .235/50R18 tires and wheels with Michelin Pilot sport AS-3s
      .GXP brake calipers and rotors
      .night shade taillights or tail light covers
      .under drive water pump pully (INSTALLED)
      .U bend delete (this car doesn’t have the Ubend at the o2 sensor)
      .flash tuned PCM (stock PCM cannot be flashed)

      POSSIBLE UPGRADES (if i really get the money)
      .aluminom ratio rockers
      .headers
      .free flow cat
      .coil overs
      .semi slick tires and wheels for summer use, with a set of snow tires for winter use on 225/60R16s.
      .Nitrous Oxide Injection
      .Top swap (L-32 heads, fuel injectors, lower plenum, and supercharger
      .3.4 SC pully
      .larger fuel injectors

      EVENTUALLY
      Transmission overhaul replacing all components with more beefy durable components probably when the original transmission finally fails.

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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      Replies
    • #551156
      BillBill
      Participant

        I’m happy to hear you finally have a real job now. Those are nice upgrades, but what are you working on?

        #551791
        dandan
        Moderator

          [quote=”wysetech” post=76145]I’m happy to hear you finally have a real job now. Those are nice upgrades, but what are you working on?[/quote]

          woops forgot too mentune the car type, thanks for pointing that out XD

          #551793
          dandan
          Moderator

            i installed the aftermarket intake and i am quite pleased, i here people give these intakes a lot of crap beacuse they are high priced… but i am actually quite pleased with the results. i was intending too make my own intake with a few couplers and tubes but there where things i was not sure of especually the security of the PCM, so i got a after market intake kit and installed it.

            the intake kit features a large conical filter, the entire assembly was very simple! the intake tube itself was fairly straight forward, the intake tube comes with a coupler too attach a i would say 20 degree elbow, very little bend in it, the elbow has a “Zerk” or port or what ever too attach a PCV hose that comes with the kit, another coupler then allows the MAF sensor to attach to it very simply, then there is another coupler that attaches the filter element assembly too the MAF sensor! the intake tube is supported buy a bracket which once again comes in the kit! the Cone filter sits inside of a heat shroud that is supposed too separate the filter from the engine bay but allows tons of room for the filter too breathe, the kit also comes with a mounting bracket for the PCM! the PCM is bolted on with rubber grommets too a metal plate which is bolted down too where the origional air box was fastened down… it all is held together and looks neat and tighty and i like the way it looks.

            assembly was easy, had it installed at least in a hour and a half with no issues at all, went together like nothing with simple tools!

            any performance gains?

            well according too a chart the kit came with they tested the aftermarket intake on a 2004 grand prix with the same engine, same transmission. with a stock air box there results for a base line where something like 197HP too the wheels, they claimed the aftermarket intake resulted in 213HP too the wheels which is a 16HP gain… this is not a huge gain and would not be hardly noticeable as too really have a noticeable difference there needs to be at least a 10% gain in engine power, so if the chart it came with is true your performance gains would barley be noticeable.

            first test run and i did notice improved throttle response and the results pretty much line up with the graph it came with, there is a gain in performance but it is barley noticeable! you really have to pay attention too notice it, the biggest thing i like about the kit is it really brought out the sound of the engine, it sounds very angry when you open the throttle enough, when i first drove it i was surprised with the deep roar when i got into tight traffic, sounds like a angry monster.

            pictures later.

            #551816
            dandan
            Moderator

              total assembly
              [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/CAIT.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/CAIT.png[/IMG][/URL]

              angled view
              [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/CIAT2.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/CIAT2.png[/IMG][/URL]

              large cone air filter
              [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/Conefilter.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/Conefilter.png[/IMG][/URL]

              PCM mounting bracket
              [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/CAIT3.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/CAIT3.png[/IMG][/URL]

              #558077
              dandan
              Moderator

                my primary concern when i did my reserch on these wires, would the stock ignition system like them, would they cause radio interfearence… then i did more reserch and found out lots of people with the 3800 engines are using them beacuse they are good plug wires, not only are they a much lower resistance than factory wires but they also seem too emit less magnetic pulses… they are about a millimeter thicker than the stock wires and are very durable, i had too build the wires myself but it was easy, the hardest part of the job was getting the factory wires off.

                how well do the wires perform, the stock ignition system LOVES them, the engine purrs like a kitten, i have no misfire issues at all and i think the engine has just a hair more grunt… though i doubt these plugs add any more serious power, they sure spice up the under hood and make the engine run very smooth.

                [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/MSDplugwires.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/MSDplugwires.png[/IMG][/URL]

                #558078
                dandan
                Moderator

                  may i also note i installed a new thermostat as well as a very thero cooling system flush as well as getting rid of that descusting Dexcool garbage, i also added the royal purple ice additive as i have heard very good things about it.

                  the car did need the new thermostat and i am much happier that dexcool is no longer in the cooling system, i did a VERY thero flush, and the new thermostat brings the engine up too operating temperature much quicker, the engine now runs at proper temps, and i am happy with that result.

                  #576801
                  dandan
                  Moderator

                    i installed new AC Delco iridium plugs, as well as i did a complete oil change and switched too royal purple and the car seems too like that a little more than what was in it, i also had a Thrust Turbo Muffler installed, it looks close too the stock muffler though its not as big, it sounds really nice… its not loud, its very quiet just a little louder than the stock exhaust but what sound it does bring out most is the bassy Rumble and Burble at idle or when cruising at low idle down the road, very nice deep rich tone, and as crazy as it sounds after the muffler was installed the car felt a little quicker.

                    [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/thrushturbomuffler.png.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/thrushturbomuffler.png[/IMG][/URL]

                    #590403
                    dandan
                    Moderator

                      not too recently flipped the dog bone bushings, the GM bushings seem too have a lot of excessive play but are almost perfectly square, flipping them 90 degrees in there mounting areas places them in a position where they cannot wiggle as much, the result is quite pleasing.

                      upon acceleration the car seems too be more responsive and less laggy, but there are next too no increase in vibrations, why GM just didnt go with a solid rubber mount in place of the one with the slots which allowed the engine too sway back and forth freely about an inch and a half is beyond me!

                      #594597
                      dandan
                      Moderator

                        i have just installed the 5.5 inch under drive water pump pulley buy ZZP and i am very pleased with it, kind of sceptical at first and concerned but after doing some thero testing things turned out well.

                        stock pully
                        [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/stockwaterpumppulley.jpg.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/stockwaterpumppulley.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

                        ZZP 5.5 inch under drive pully
                        [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/ZZPwaterpumppully.jpg.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/ZZPwaterpumppully.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
                        the ZZP Pulley is not only larger in diameter too reduce resistance from the water pump, but it is also made of billet aluminum and despite the fact it is larger than the stock steel pulley it is lighter.

                        COOLING
                        as soon as i had the part installed i ran the engine and had my scan tool plugged in too watch operating temperatures, at idle the car reaches 221 degrees and the fans kick on and temperature drops comfortably, it will do this until it reaches about 196 degrees and the cooling fans kick off, with the AC on it will stay at about 196 as the fans are constantly running too keep the condenser cool. during driving the temperature of the engine will fluxuate from 190 too 200 degrees, usually once again about 196, so it seems too be safe for the non supercharged 3800, i even performed a test for hot weather and draped a thick blanket over the grill of the car too limit some of the air flow too the radiator, and still it stayed at between 196-221 bouncing up and down comfortably as cooling fans kicked on and off at idle.

                        PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT
                        from a dead stop a little more pep is noted nothing ground breaking but it does feel a little more free, it does feel like a little less throttle is required too make the car roll, and does feel like it goes a little more when you give it gas, the biggest difference is felt when you really get on it and your passing someone on the highway, the pully really seems too free up power at the higher revs.

                        INSTALLATION
                        installation was easy, loosen the bolts holding the pulley too the pump with the belt on so it does not try spinning as you loosen, remove the belt from the water pump pulley, remove the four small bolts, 8MM head in size, remove the pulley, install the ZZP Pulley and put the bolts back in put the belt back on and snug the bolts up… there is still room for the tensioner too move, and belt tension is within spec not too tight, so you can run this pulley with the stock belt as ZZP already states.

                        #600204
                        dandan
                        Moderator

                          so what do you think of the stripes ladies and gents?

                          [URL=http://s49.photobucket.com/user/13aceofspades13/media/racingstripes.jpg.html][IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/13aceofspades13/racingstripes.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

                          something simple, i didn’t want LULZ BEKUZ RASE KAR! just something a little flashy, a little bit different.

                          so lets revew the mods we have so far

                          ENGINE MODIFICATIONS
                          K&N Cold air intake
                          MSD 8.5MM super conductor spark plug wires
                          Accel super coils
                          ZZP 5.5 Inch water pump pulley

                          EXHAUST
                          thrush turbo muffler

                          SUSPENSION, STEERING
                          flipped dogbone bushings

                          BODY
                          stripes

                          #600279
                          Joeseph MamaJoeseph Mama
                          Participant

                            q: is NOS injection good for the engine..? :dry:

                            #600455
                            dandan
                            Moderator

                              the thing with nitrous oxide injection is you need to do it CORRECTLY, and its one of those modifications i might do…

                              you see if you add too much spray you can run the engine lean and destroy the engine, small amounts probably wouldn’t harm my engine, i would also want too go with a wet injection system that injects fuel with the nitrous oxide so i lesson the risk of running the engine lean… as Nitrous oxide primarily just oxidizes the air fuel mixture so it burns more completely and so you can add more fuel which means more power.

                              once again one of those modifications i might do… sorta thinking about it.

                              #608931
                              dandan
                              Moderator

                                Replaced the coolant elbows with aluminom units while doing a oil change and in the process discovered how difficult it was to re install the stock belt, so i also had a over sized belt installed. the stock belt size is something like 90.75 inches, since the 5.5 inch pulley takes a little bit more play out of the tensioner getting it stretched over that little more is difficult, getting the stock belt on proves frustrating.

                                the next size up is a 91.25 inch belt, and it fits wonderfully with the under drive water pump pulley, as if it was factory fit, i have posted the elbow replacement in the how too section.

                                http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/10-Repair-Central-The-How-To-Forum/52567-3800-series-iii-n-a-coolant-elbow-replacement

                                #609114
                                road2perfectionroad2perfection
                                Participant

                                  hey dude, you do quite a lot correctly.
                                  I suggest replacing ALL pulleys, also flywheel.
                                  on a N/A engine it means a lot, don’t overdo the flywheel.

                                  But pulleys and bearings for high milage cars do wonders.

                                  BMW M3 e46 will see more power from the pulleys than:
                                  Exhaust, ECU tune, pod filter(usually does nothing in terms of performance, but the sound!!!) put together.

                                  reduce weight your engine spins around is what makes these N/a make power.

                                  Otherwise, keep it up, I don’t expect you to do what I do to my car :p

                                  #616653
                                  dandan
                                  Moderator

                                    i think the next thing up on the list is a set of ZZP intake runners for the intake plenum, you see the intake runners in the 3800 series III L-26 are long narrow runners that are made of plastic, and curve inward inside of the manifold plenum peace, this is awesome for low end torque but kills any sort of top end power, also in the bottom of the plenum is just a massive empty cave between the runners this causes a lot of turbulence,

                                    the ZZP intake runners are slightly fatter and much shorter, and sort of fill in that bowled in area of the lower plenum to increase airflow.

                                    i already have a 5.5 inch under drive water pump pulley, made a small difference.

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