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I am a level 1 apprentice for those who are familiar with the Canadian apprenticeship path. Anyway, what I’m about to ask may have been already revisited in this topic, but there’s no way I’m gonna look back that far because I’d rather get a more up to date response. Now Eric said in his “Re:” video for this topic that synthetic can be mixed in any quantities with conventional because it was originally designed for use in an engine. It was my understanding that 1) you can’t mix the two and 2) a flush is needed before switching to either one. I believe that one of the main reasons you can’t mix the 2 is because of the whole “leaking past the seals” concern, regardless of the ratio, because like he said in that video, the seals have been adapted to the quality of oil that was already being put in. So i guess my main question is: how is it possible that you can get away with mixing synthetic and conventional without performing a flush and not see any leaks? I can comprehend the fact that synthetic was originally designed for use in an ENGINE, however for an engine to properly function, it has to SEAL. I can’t envision a proper seal after mixing synthetic and conventional if the manufacturer had only specified one, regardless of how versatile the engine is in performance management. I’ve obviously left out a lot of factors as far as developments in technology these days but I’m still learning and that was as simple as I can put it. Hope someone can get back to me on this with a thorough response. Thanks.
[quote=”v_bhogal95″ post=89151]I am a level 1 apprentice for those who are familiar with the Canadian apprenticeship path. Anyway, what I’m about to ask may have been already revisited in this topic, but there’s no way I’m gonna look back that far because I’d rather get a more up to date response. Now Eric said in his “Re:” video for this topic that synthetic can be mixed in any quantities with conventional because it was originally designed for use in an engine. It was my understanding that 1) you can’t mix the two and 2) a flush is needed before switching to either one. I believe that one of the main reasons you can’t mix the 2 is because of the whole “leaking past the seals” concern, regardless of the ratio, because like he said in that video, the seals have been adapted to the quality of oil that was already being put in. So i guess my main question is: how is it possible that you can get away with mixing synthetic and conventional without performing a flush and not see any leaks? I can comprehend the fact that synthetic was originally designed for use in an ENGINE, however for an engine to properly function, it has to SEAL. I can’t envision a proper seal after mixing synthetic and conventional if the manufacturer had only specified one, regardless of how versatile the engine is in performance management. I’ve obviously left out a lot of factors as far as developments in technology these days but I’m still learning and that was as simple as I can put it. Hope someone can get back to me on this with a thorough response. Thanks.[/quote]
Yea, you really should go back and read more, especially if you want to chime in on this thread. As stated several times as well as in the Re video you mentioned, most synthetics are not ‘full’ synthetics anyway and are already mixed with conventional oil. You do NOT need to do any engine flushing nor do anything to prepare for using synthetic oil. Synthetic oil was always designed to work with conventional oil in the first place. It has nothing to do with seals or anything else as you stated. The leaks I mentioned have nothing to do with the additive package of the oil, it has to do with the engine and seals already being worn out. Using a ‘slicker’ lubricant will slip past those worn out areas faster than one that isn’t as slick. Think about it, why would they make a synthetic oil that could not mix with conventional oil?
Be sure to pay particular attention at 2:50
I would also suggest you read the letter that I just posted as it really does cover the basics as far as synthetic vs regular oil.
Here at the Shop we do tons of engine rebuilds and swaps. I may be wrong but personally I can’t tell the difference between one or the other. Eric made some valid points but for what we do here it seems like Regular oil works just as good as Synthetic in our swaps and rebuilds.
[quote=”bustedbolts” post=89194]Here at the Shop we do tons of engine rebuilds and swaps. I may be wrong but personally I can’t tell the difference between one or the other. Eric made some valid points but for what we do here it seems like Regular oil works just as good as Synthetic in our swaps and rebuilds.[/quote]
When its the dead of winter and you drive a car with a crappy little no power starter and you’ve just pulled an all-nighter and your eyes are red and your head is spinning and you walk outside and the snow squeaks under your feet and the cold is piercing and all you can think about is getting between the sheets and you turn the key to start and the engine roars to life, you’ve just learned that, in this situation, synthetic is better.
With all the talk on this subject I wanted to do a test. I have 2 identical create Blue point 350 engines here at the shop. neither have ever been run. I put them both on my engine dyno after using break in oil I changed the oil and filter in both. One I used Mobile 1 full Synthetic the other regular mobile 1 both with the same weight. after running the engines on the dyno several times to my surprise the engine that we used full synthetic oil in actually showed more horse power and torque than the one with non-synthetic oil. Now to be fair after seeing this I thought maybe there are differences with the engines that would cause this out come. So I changed the oil and filter on the engine that had the synthetic oil on it and put the same standard mobile 1 in . I ran it for the same number of passes on the dyno and there it was a horse power drop. Plane as day on the graph. So after all that I guess I was wrong before there is a difference between the to.
[quote=”bustedbolts” post=89301]With all the talk on this subject I wanted to do a test. I have 2 identical create Blue point 350 engines here at the shop. neither have ever been run. I put them both on my engine dyno after using break in oil I changed the oil and filter in both. One I used Mobile 1 full Synthetic the other regular mobile 1 both with the same weight. after running the engines on the dyno several times to my surprise the engine that we used full synthetic oil in actually showed more horse power and torque than the one with non-synthetic oil. Now to be fair after seeing this I thought maybe there are differences with the engines that would cause this out come. So I changed the oil and filter on the engine that had the synthetic oil on it and put the same standard mobile 1 in . I ran it for the same number of passes on the dyno and there it was a horse power drop. Plane as day on the graph. So after all that I guess I was wrong before there is a difference between the to.[/quote
Sorry for the typo BLUE PRINT ENGINES
I believe theres benefit to running synthetic in some applications. In others, it’s more trouble than it’s worth. That’s really what I was trying to say in the video although so much seemed to get lost in translation. Also, it seems that people have very strong opinions on the subject and at times no matter what the evidence is, they insist that they’re correct in their beliefs. It’s interesting really. Yes, synthetic is better than conventional oil for the most part, but I think what’s more interesting is the ‘perceived value’ of something you pay more money for, and the misconceptions that come with that.
That’s a very good post but all the testing, engineers and the best labs in the world will never come close to the testing done by “John Q Public” driving his car every day.
I don’t think there are NASCAR teams running Dino oil anyware in their $150.000 race cars. They run at 250+ degree oil temperatures for 4 hours at 9000 rpm They use synthetic for a reason not to mention trying to gain one thousands of a second speed difference between competitors.
Just my opinion 🙂
[quote=”wysetech” post=89473]That’s a very good post but all the testing, engineers and the best labs in the world will never come close to the testing done by “John Q Public” driving his car every day.
I don’t think there are NASCAR teams running Dino oil anyware in their $150.000 race cars. They run at 250+ degree oil temperatures for 4 hours at 9000 rpm They use synthetic for a reason not to mention trying to gain one thousands of a second speed difference between competitors.
Just my opinion :)[/quote]
Fantastic! You just made my point. Application. A 1992 Honda Civic with 250K is NOT a NASCAR. I never claimed that dino was better than synthetic. What I said in both videos was is that there are certain situations where the use of synthetic may actually be harmful OR a complete waste of money. If you have a solid engine that’s not leaking and you want to extend your oil change interval and get better MPG, synthetic is the way to go. If however you have an old POS that you’re looking to make better with synthetic oil, think again. It may do more harm than good.
the best demonstration that I’ve seen is when regular & synthetic oil was pour in a frying pan and cooked, well synthetic was still runny while regular was burnt up.
Wow. This is a good topic.
I am all Mobil1. Started with my 3rd car (my list of cars in my sig), 1983 280z turbo, back in 1997. This car was quite abused, was working part time doing delivery for take-out taxi in ATL and i liked making my deliveries pdq. I had regular in it, then for some reason, i saw some coupon and went ahead and tried Mobil1.
The engine was so much quieter after the oil change.
My jaw just about hit the floor.
Was much too dramatic of a difference and that engine never sprang a leak.
Since then, every car i’ve had, i only run Mobil1.
Not just any synthetic, but Mobil1 with recommended weight and viscosity.However, i can see how/why there would be recommendation against synthetics or at least the value might not be there for many cars and their respective drivers.
The bit about the possibly “remove” the sludge left behind by regular oil and maybe what was clogged is now floating around to be clogging somewhere else, well, i’d say that’s more likely the case when switching much later in an engine’s life – especially an engine that’s been neglected of oil changes.
Not really sure about the engine life’s part though, as i did the switch in the 280z at around 120k or so.
Did the switch in the Accord at around 70k or so and the Benz i think started with synthetic since new.
The Escort i started using Mobil1 when it was under 90k. Acura Legend switched when it was 120k or so.Personal recommendation to anyone, use Mobil1. if just transitioning between oils, do 3k mi changes first two or three times. Then can do the 5k or 10 to 15k (extended life) changes after this transition period.
I have not had a car which became leakier or noisier because of a change to synthetic. I have had cars that became quieter and remained leak free after a change to synthetic. I have had cars that had no observable change between using synthetic and conventional – well, actually, i think i’ve always noticed the engine is quieter when going to synthetic.
Yes, i have tried Rotella once, tried Castrol blended, tried Penzoil Platinum. For some reason or another, although Mobil1 is always more expensive, i keep coming back.But that’s just me … and im going to do my first oil change on my latest acquisition (infinti g20) to full synthetic (actually might start this with Castrol Edge instead of Mobil1, not sure yet) in right about 500 more miles. And then doing another change at 3k after that. Hope no leaky. This car is at 158k.
oil, o’ what wonderous substance, both seals and lubricates!
Dunno if i can document it … maybe i will try.
2 cents.[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=89503][quote=”wysetech” post=89473]That’s a very good post but all the testing, engineers and the best labs in the world will never come close to the testing done by “John Q Public” driving his car every day.
I don’t think there are NASCAR teams running Dino oil anyware in their $150.000 race cars. They run at 250+ degree oil temperatures for 4 hours at 9000 rpm They use synthetic for a reason not to mention trying to gain one thousands of a second speed difference between competitors.
Just my opinion :)[/quote]
Fantastic! You just made my point. Application. A 1992 Honda Civic with 250K is NOT a NASCAR. I never claimed that dino was better than synthetic. What I said in both videos was is that there are certain situations where the use of synthetic may actually be harmful OR a complete waste of money. If you have a solid engine that’s not leaking and you want to extend your oil change interval and get better MPG, synthetic is the way to go. If however you have an old POS that you’re looking to make better with synthetic oil, think again. It may do more harm than good.[/quote]
I can’t explain why with a logical or rational reason, but my brain says “you prefer to use conventional oil.” I do however like to follow the manufacturer’s recommendations. For my Taurus, it is Ford WSS-M2C153-H. I use Castrol GTX 5W-20, Ford Motorcraft filters and change it every 5000 miles.
I think most people are thinking of synthetic oil as a “fountain of youth” for their engines. My experience shows it is not, at least in stock, everyday drivers. I ran Redline 0w-30 and Chevron Supreme 5w-30 oils in a 2000 Pontiac Montana 3.4L V6, and a 2008 Buick Enclave 3.5L V6. Analyzed the oil and the wear numbers were identical. I did do a few changes with each oil before sampling to be sure there was no conflicting chemistry.
I also was under the impression I could run a lower viscosity synthetic oil as it would protect better, flow better, disperse heat better, and result in fuel economy gains. The 0w-20 and 5w-20 (not Redline) I tried did not lube the wrist pins adequately and I lost the bottom of a piston. The 3.4L V6 had 158,00 miles, and is notorious for intake gasket failures every 60,000 miles allowing coolant into the crankcase, maybe this added to the engine’s early demise. The analysis comparison was done on the new GM service replacement engine in this vehicle.
The Chevron or Shell 5w-30 or 10w-30 oil you can buy at Costco when it is on coupon special for $27 a case is just as good (for stock engines) as the $137.88 per case Redline 0w-30. For the price, you can change the oil every 1,000 miles, and still be ahead.
In my opinion, the best thing you can do for oil is change it. I think Eric has the same opinion. As a bonus, you are getting all the small particles out that cause engine wear.
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