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I have a 2006 Honda Pilot 4wd with 220,000 miles. I replaced the timing belt at 180K and managed to put the timing belt guide plate on backwards. So needless to say that belt did not last long. About 5k later it shredded. So I checked the engine over and everything appeared to be ok, I put a new belt on. Engine runs fine but now I have code 0389 “ckp sensor B intermittent”. The car has been running fine for 35K but my wife is tired of having no cruise control and no 4wd, since it seems the computer locks out all of these items with this code.
So I put a new CKP sensor in it again, same code. I read both of the sensors out, they both read the same. Both of the sensors have the Mitsubishi symbol on them so even though I know that one is original and the other is Beck Arnley they are the same. The only difference is the original sensor will run for about 3 minutes before the code comes up while the new sensor pops the code immediately on startup. I put a Snap On computer on the car and read out both sensors with the engine running, all readings are within range as per the Honda repair manual. 12V, 5V and the frequency from the sensor {A and B} all the way to the PCM.
I believe that I have a pretty good understanding of this system and how it works but probably something simple I am missing that is causing this problem. I have checked and rechecked wiring connections, grounds and the like but have not found any inconsistencies in my readings with a fluke meter.
Any suggestions are appreciated. If you had this problem what would you do? I have followed the FSM to the letter and have got nowhere.
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Picking this apart…
First:
” managed to put the timing belt guide plate on backwards. So needless to say that belt did not last long. About 5k later it shredded. ”
Then…
” Engine runs fine but now I have code 0389 “ckp sensor B intermittent ”“ So I put a new CKP sensor in it again, same code. I read both of the sensors out, they both read the same. Both of the sensors have the Mitsubishi symbol on them so even though I know that one is original and the other is Beck Arnley they are the same. ”
Occam’s razor:
” <font color="orange]managed to put the timing belt guide plate on backwards. So needless to say that belt did not last long. About 5k later it [color=red]shredded[/color”>. ”
Chances are you have debris causing ckp sensor B intermittentI neglected to include that I have also replaced the crank gear so no chance that there is debris between the sensor and crank timing gear.
The crank gear is Honda. I don’t know about the belt, it has 40k on it and looks fine. Thanks for your questions, I appreciate your help.
Thanks Nightflyr. I bought the Honda timing belt, will let you know how it turns out. I don’t have a scope so will just have to hope the CEL does not come on. I have a basic scanner so I can check it. Can you recommend a good scanner app for my laptop that would show me the level of detail to diagnose a problem such as this? Or in order to see the information such as in the video you provided would it be required to back probe the computer? Thanks for your help, I should be able to put the belt on tomorrow and test it out.
I went back and watched the video again wondering why I had not found it before, since I have googled this problem probably fifty times over the last year or so! I was relieved to see that it was just published three days ago. Thanks again for finding it for me.
“I’d try doing the crankshaft position sensor relearn procedure”
I thought that for a few months as well and did try it a few times but what I have learned is that the relearn procedure is for optimization. It will not fix a problem nor will it cause a problem that is bad enough to throw the code. There are several videos and forums online from Honda and Acura techs where they quote that they have changed hundreds of timing belts and have never performed the relearn procedure with no problems at all.
I would suggest PICO
https://www.picotech.com/products/oscilloscope
Specifically:
https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/3000/usb3-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer[quote=”jedwa1216″ post=197631]I thought that for a few months as well and did try it a few times but what I have learned is that the relearn procedure is for optimization. It will not fix a problem nor will it cause a problem that is bad enough to throw the code. There are several videos and forums online from Honda and Acura techs where they quote that they have changed hundreds of timing belts and have never performed the relearn procedure with no problems at all.[/quote]
Interesting, I didn’t know that it wouldn’t cause a code if not done.
I agree it only needs to be done if removing/replacing a crank sensor, not just a timing belt.
Problem solved! I changed the timing belt and the cam position sensor so I don’t know exactly which one was the problem but it is finally fixed. I had replaced the cam position sensor just because I had it apart so in hindsight maybe that wasn’t a good decision. It is hard to know. Of course anyone can say “if it aint broke don’t fix it” but it is common practice to change water pumps and timing belts at intervals so where do you draw the line? Anyway thanks to Nightflyr for showing me the video that finally cleared this problem up. I literally had the same problem as in the video: code 0389 after changing the timing belt, cam position sensor, and crank position sensor.
The tolerances in the Honda PCM are very tight so if the belt is even a smidgen longer it will throw this code because it allows the cam and crank to be about half a tooth off. I do feel that the Dayco belt was too long because it was much easier to put on than the Honda belt. Maybe a technician that does this job every day would recognize this but for a DIYer doing this job every couple of years, it is impossible.
Lesson learned: Always use Honda OEM timing belts.[quote=”jedwa1216″ post=197631]”I’d try doing the crankshaft position sensor relearn procedure”
I thought that for a few months as well and did try it a few times but what I have learned is that the relearn procedure is for optimization. It will not fix a problem nor will it cause a problem that is bad enough to throw the code. There are several videos and forums online from Honda and Acura techs where they quote that they have changed hundreds of timing belts and have never performed the relearn procedure with no problems at all.[/quote]
Glad the issue is fixed.
I just finished doing some repairs and maintenance on my 07 Odyssey. One of the things I did was this TSB (08-0145), which says:
21. Do the CKP pattern clear/CKP pattern learn
procedure. Go to the appropriate procedure below.
NOTE: If you don’t do the CKP pattern clear/learn
procedure, the ECM/PCM may detect misfire when
there is none, and possibly set DTC(s) P0300
through P0306.http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A08-045.PDF
It’s not clear if they mean it should be done even if the CKP sensor or drive pulley was not removed.
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