Chrysler 3.5 V6 – 1995 vintage (modern!)

[Jim Morriss]

To the keepers of Knowledge I humbly beseech ye:

I have a 1995 Chrysler Concord with the venerable 3.5 v6. The Thing started fine and ran fine out the driveway and 1/4 mi. to the stop sign. As I accelerated from the sign it hesitated and gave the slightest hint of blow-back and stumbled badly. It acts like the accelerator pump is not working, or the vacuum advance stopped functioning. (but those seem to be missing!) It is very reluctant to accelerate and stumbles. It acts like it is in default (limp) mode. It also started a knocking sound that is rod-like in pitch and frequency but seems to be from the top of the engine.

Limped home and pulled codes via the ignition switch and engine light. Then I did the Quick & Dirty “pull the plug wire see if the knock gets worse” test. The knock did not double up and the cylinder that did not change the idle was #1. Pulled plugs, all were the most beautiful light caramel color of a perfect plug but #6. It was sooty and black but wiped off it look like the others. On to the compression test: #1-5 155 lbs, #6 180 lbs.(huh?) Took of the valve covers to look for obvious physical deformities; none noted. Pushed on springs, tapped on springs, examined all parts for wear, scoring, etc; nothing. I only noted that the right(odd) bank was a clean yellow in color while the front(#2-4) half of the even bank was a dark brown. Kinda like a well used baking pan. The #6 cylinder was as the right bank. (see pics) I don’t want to go farther into this with out examining the sensors involved with this to see where I should be looking. I don’t know exactly what the codes are telling me. I don’t know if the codes are caused by the knock or a symptom of what caused the knock.

I am not experienced with the computer side of this system but I have a basic understanding of what it does. (give me my naked ’71 Ford ranger 302 engine thank you) I What I need is a basic explanation of the sequence of events that keeps this engine running. I have the Chrysler service manual for this car, but alas my troglodyte ways are biting me in the politician. I can swap the parts but that does not a mechanic make. I can get it down to a suspect ‘system’, but that is still a shotgun blast not a magic bullet.

All the problems with this car: (my pet peeve is not having ALL the facts)
The power locks stopped working. This was after I had a mechanic change them all out because while they would function they would not lock anymore and they are built into the lock mech. The Auto control for the heater sometimes comes on in the high temp, full fan mode and controls do not work. And the most recent thing that happened was the wipers stopped working and would only work on ‘wash’. As this car does not get driven much I was waiting for better weather to start working on it. Now it’s here and more pressing issues arise. I was beginning to suspect the body control mod for the wipers when I noticed the wipers only worked when you pressed “in” on the lever. But I’ll worry about that when I get this engine thing fixed.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I found a TSB about a problem with foaming oil when over filled but not the case and that was why I looked at the top end, just in case. That and I only had to remove 1/4 of the world to look for anything amiss there. I would hate to swap an engine for a loose gas cap…

Here are the code results:
12 Memory Standby Power Recently Lost
32 EGR Diagnostics
65 Manifold Tuning Valve
66 CCD Bus System
46 Battery Voltage Is Too High
77 Speed Control Relay Circuit
55 End Of Message

Thanks
Jim

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Topic

[Mathieu]

It’s clear iT’S A PERFORMANCE ISSUE. bUT YOU NEED TO UNPLUG THE SPRAK PLUG TO SEE IF YOU HAVE COOLANT ON iT THAT WILL INDICATED YOU HAVE A LEAK GASKET THAT WAS REPAIR WHIT HEAD GASKET STOPPER PRODUCT. tHEN, Then if the spark plug transformer have oil on It, you have a valve and spark plug gasket cover leak. Then see if you have a crack in the intake whit a smoke machine or whit a cigar.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMok2y05jNE[/video]

[Jim Morriss]

Thanks for the idea(s).

I have looked for a vacuum leak, loose or broken wires, loose or broken connectors, physical damage to the vale train, signs of a head gasket problem (both internal and external), signs of a fluid leak into or onto any component or component control that would cause failure, damaged exhaust or signs of a clogged exhaust…. ANYTHING I can think of that will address any of the individual or combined symptom(s).

Will some great typist please explain to me what are the symptoms of a nonfunctional MTV and Tell me if it will make a loud clicking/knocking noise. I can’t find either of those bits of info on the web.

I had to laugh when I realized about the caps lock key. I could not figure out what was so important about that sentence. Remember: Don’t read important stuff after the 18th hour of your day…. :silly: I’m way too OCD to leave it typed backwards. I will sometimes retype things several times until I get the grammar and syntax juuuussst right. With dyslexia and ADD I spend a bunch of time rereading and editing any post I leave. Guess I’m just a geek with mechanical tendencies.

[Mathieu]

The knoking problem is the piston that slam in the engine head because the old owner overfill the engine whit oil and the piston slam into It and over time the leng of te piston increase a bit.
For the cliking, It’s might be low oil pressure.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2fcbTh5yw[/video]

You can restore temprally you car pressure whit Luas stop engine leak.
http://www.lucasoil.ca/products/product.asp?id=35&cat=HeavyDuty 15 us $.

For the MTV, well I searsh a bit but nothing but should be Motor transmission Vehicule. But you have no transmission problem. Some shifting issue can be rolated to a lack of the engine performance (low engine pressure, air comming from a crack after the Mass airflow sensor, poor ignition glug, etc)

[Matthew]

power locks can be a fuse wiring or contact issue wipers could be bad motor blown fuse or bad switch check all the fuses. The knocking can come from using wrong octane fuel or if you are low on oil look in the manual for recommended octane fuel and check the oil. fact the wipers work in wash mode makes me think a switch issue as if it was a fuse or motor it wouldnt work at all.

also inspect plug wires for cracks if you can put it in a pitch black area start it ans spray water on the plug wires if you see arcing your wires are shot

[Jim Morriss]

Ummm Let me try to give you an idea of me.

I’m not a complete newbie. I have done my share of straight forward stuff even figured a few tough ones. At 54 (OMG! in 2 days! 54!!) I have seen and done a few things. I just sorta started messing with engines from when I can remember. There where a few old Briggs and Stratton engines under dads bench in the basement and they were great puzzle toys for me. Found and old lawn mower at the curb when I was 7. Took it home and made it work. Took it back apart, put it back together, and it still worked. That got my dads attention. Until then I had ‘helped’ dad do everything and when I asked he’d say I helped “…like an extra thumb.” and I’d just think that was great. :blush: 😆

Dad is a great mechanic. One of those guys that you tell “I have a green 65 Impala that doesn’t run right” and he’d have the right answer from that description. In ’76 I watched him give the valve specs for a ’56 International 6 cylinder off the top of his head; hot and cold! The only thing I ever saw stump him was when Chevy(?) had the double exhaust pipe (one inside the other) and the inside one had collapsed but left the external one intact. He knew the problem was restricted exhaust but it took a while to find that pipe.

Anyway I grew up holding lights, watching, eventually doing “prep” for major repairs. I would do all the stuff for removing engines and he would come over and hoist it out. Of course when your 10 you should not be running 10 ton electric hoists attached to an engine; it WILL come out, whether you disconnected it or not. Dad taught me about auto mechanics. (and carpentry, plumbing, electrical, refrigeration, ect etc)

I had always done all my own work until I screwed up my back in ’94. What ever went wrong I had to figure out what it was and how to fix the problem. Now I don’t lean over the engine so good. I have had to let others do my wrenching for me for the last 15 years or so because I couldn’t physically do the work then lived where ‘they'(HOA) would not let me work in the yard and now I find my skills have suffered. :ohmy:

Got my first car in ’74, it was a ’63 Corvair. Then a ’61 Caddi with a big ol 390. (yep I wish I had ’em back) They both spent their share of time limping home, parked on the side of the road or parking lot with the hood up. The points (oh god I AM old) slipped closed on the Caddi when I tried to start it one morning. Lesson: It is illogical to think something happened to the engine while you sleep in the car. It happened while you were cranking it. Had a ’76 Subaru 1600 that would go through lower cylinder seals about as often as oil changes. Learned to get that job done in just a few hours.(The recall escaped me. The fix is to double the copper seal) Rebuilt a Bosh Jetronic fuel distributor that the VW dealer service manager said was “non-rebuidable”. (That was when I figured out service mgrs are NOT mechanics and know very little) I have done engine rebuilds, trani’s, and some bodywork. I have worked on cars, trucks, motorcycles and boats. If you think dropping a carburetor bolt is a pain in the shop try it in 250’of water. You can’t even spread out a drop cloth. In 2009 I had no problems changing the clutch in my Sammy; tiny, tiny little gearbox and I was laying on my back. I still do what I can and some stuff I shouldn’t because I can’t afford to pay somebody else to do it. I have figured work arounds for a lot of what I do but there’s not much of a way work on the top of the engine without laying on it. I do have had some formal training and a lot of apprenticeship work. I have made a living working on cars at a service station and doing side work. Most of it was parts swapping though. It’s not hard to diagnose a bad clutch or fuel pump stuff like that.( well it didn’t use to be!) So I can take it apart and put it back together that is not the problem. It’s the diagnostics that keep me shaking my head.

I actually hate to have someone else work on my cars as I don’t trust others readily. It makes me feel somewhat less( of a man? intelligent? IDK) and it’s entirely too easy to get screwed. I have repaired some things for a few dollars that supposed to be $1000 jobs for some really grateful friends.

I have searched for a description of the symptoms for the MTV failing and can’t seem to find one. So far all I find is either what the MTV does or how it functions. What I need is a description that, in detail, very specifically, EXPLAINS what pieces are moving when and why. I need these questions answered:What does it sound like when the MTV fails? Is it capable of making or causing the knocking sound that I am hearing? When it fails what are the performance symptoms? I don’t want to hear “performance suffers”, no crap, does it really? I have found this question posted as far back as 2003 with few replies and not one usable answer. So this is frustrating as hell for me.

I have done hours of searches and keep finding the same kind of crap. Lots of info an What an MTV is, how it works but not how it is actuated and what the symptoms are when it fails. A lot of really stupid answers that don’t really say anything definitive are out there. It’s like a politician is playing mechanic. He talks a lot but doesn’t say anything. So I’ll spend a few more hours on the web then Ill put it back together and see if I have two problems or one.

As I search, I am reminded just how fake TV is. Not by the ‘magic bullets’, not by the ridiculous explosions at improbable times that never hurt the good guys, not even the 200′ car jumps that don’t even raise dust on the landing and the car is still show room pristine, it’s when I see a computer search being done and the exact answers just POP right up….

Sorry for the rambling post but I want to give you an idea of me and my skill set. Please, please, PLEASE don’t get ticked at me when I ask you to answer the question I asked. I am looking for a narrow bit of info to fill in a blank spot. Note that all answers are wanted (humorous ones appreciated for a chuckle) because I have NEVER overlooked the obvious and then slapped a big ol’ flat spot on my forehead. :whistle:

Thanks
Jim

[Jim Morriss]

Yeah If you press hard on the end of the stick they “wash” that made me think switch too. The fuel is not the problem (oh, What about water? DUH) I’ll check the tank tomorrow. The knocking sounds like a rod but couldn’t get it to change by pulling off the plug wires. I found a 1999 TSB about overfilling the engine causing oil foam and bearing failure. But this car has had three owners my dad and me are two of the three and he bought it ’99. Not likely the issue. The mechanic claimed it is the body control module that is the problem but they worked before he changed them. Well you could hear the motors run but they wouldn’t lock. I’ll just have to break down and do the work myself and that quite literally is a pain in my ass. Thanks jim

[Mathieu]

You know, I think you are better to post the question in the forum to have a fastest anser : How can I repair a MTV issue on a car ? Do what the manual told you to do, I was wroten by ingeneers. Then way this week-end to see if Ericthecarguy anser you. If the answer was not you expect, send a form by using a tab in the http://www.ericthecarguy.com to have a more precise answe. But you will wait between 1 to 2 mounths.

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