d16y7 Pinging under load

[Chris]

Hey there,

I need some help with an issue I have been trying to solve for quiet some time now after a head gasket replacement a few years back.

98 honda civic lx- D16Y7 w/t AT 267000 miles. HG replacement @ 190000

The civic would ping under load whether it be going up slight inclines or pushing the throttle ever so slightly to pass someone on the free way. I’ve been searching for vacuum leaks with no avail( used up plenty of cans of carb cleaner). I checked both my mechanical timing and ignition timing(with the service wire jumped as well) countless times and they both checked out perfect. I also adjusted the valves a few times as well. The parts i replace were just maintenance parts (plugs, wires, cap and rotor) the major being a resurfaced head, head gasket, and exhaust/ intake manifold gaskets. I dont want to just throw parts at it until i have a solid diagnosis of whats actually going on. Depending on how i accelerate it would ping after reaching 2500 rpms and stop around 4000 rpms.

It passed smog, it runs great, gets great gas mileage, no check engines lights. It just wont stop pinging no matter what I do haha. Anyways if there is any tips or advice you fellas can give me, that would be great

Chris

Topic

[college man]

Are you using the correct octane gas? What is the ignition
timing set at? Is the cooling system ok? If your combustion
chamber is getting to hot or your timing is off you will get
detonation/pinging

[Chris]

Thanks for your response. I believe 87 is the right octane for this engine as it says in my manual. Been puting that octane since i got the car with no problem till the hg repair. the car doesnt overheat and i bled it the way the service manual says to do it as well as eric’s vid. At first i thought it was the cooling system because when i start it in the morning it would rev all the way to 1800 rpm then back to 1500 rpm and stay at 1500, but thats the only thing that is “off” ever since the repair. Before, it would never rev past1500rpm on coldstarts. My timeing is set to stock, at the red line between the two other lines on the crank pully (12 degrees before tdc i believe).

i know what you are saying. Its the first thing i checked and researched constantly years ago but it all checked ok and still is. Anything else i probably looked over? something tells me its something stupid. some small thing i looked over

Chris

[Bill]

I’m thinking that a large amount was removed from the cylinder head. This would raise the compression ratio and could cause the pinging you describe. You could try retarding the ignition timing a degree or 2 or try a higher octane fuel to see if it helps.

[Chris]

Thanks for your response.

That thought has been in the back of my mind ever since the repair. I did retard the timing 2 degrees some time ago and it still pinged and lost about 2 mpgs. So I set it back to stock. I did try 89 and it pinged. I didnt push the motor while running 91 so I can’t say if it helped.

My thinking right now is an air/fuel ratio problem hence why ive been checking for vac/ exhaust leaks. I did replace the o2 sensor some time ago and it still pinged lol. When i had the whole thing apart i did wipe crud from the intake runners where the injectors were located. Is it possible that i Damaged the tips of my injectors by doing so? Hence fuel is not being mixed properly with the air to cool the pistons causing pinging without the car detecting a rich or lean condition?

Thank you

Chris

[chandler]

try the 91 octane under load my friend had the same problem with his 1980s silverado he was having spark knock higer octane fuel solved his issue

[george gonzalez]

It’s been 40,000 miles, enough time for an old engine to build up some carbon in the cylinders. That’s a common cause of pinging. You might try some of that GM engine top carbon cleaner liquid,or BG 44K, the BMW and Corvette guys swear by it.

[Chris]

Thanks for your guys’ responses

The reason why I stopped using 91 was because the car did not run right with it hence why i did not push it. i did use it for a couple tanks but it would not run right. I do drive it a lot on the highway. I put about 400 miles a week on it. rarely do i drive short trips.

About the the carbon; I understand what you are saying. When i had the head apart there was some, not a lot, but some carbon on top of the pistons. I removed a lot of it, cleaned the surfaces, then put the fresh head along with the gasket. However, when i took it for a test drive, that’s when i noticed it was pinging while going up a hill and never stopped since. So it was pining even with the carbon build up removed.

[george gonzalez]

Okay, but I suspect you have to remove EVERY BIT of carbon. Small specks might be actually worse at causing pinging than large smooth expanses. The small specks heat up more quickly and can act like pinpoint spark plugs.

[Kevin Criswell]

[quote=”wysetech” post=78213]I’m thinking that a large amount was removed from the cylinder head. This would raise the compression ratio and could cause the pinging you describe. You could try retarding the ignition timing a degree or 2 or try a higher octane fuel to see if it helps.[/quote]

That is the first thing I thought of after hearing about this starting after the HG repair. Wonder if they make a shim for that engine.

[Chris]

i will be running a compression test when i have the chance. when i get the numbers what psi is considered too high for the engine? again thanks for the tips.

I have to say though. this engine is a little trooper.

[Kevin Criswell]

I believe that for that Honda, about 120 psi should be normal. If I am wrong I am sure Eric will correct me.

[Chris]

Alrighty, time for a little upate. Yesterday i decided to fill up with 91. I then drove around a little to allow the gas to circulate. This morning i drove to work as usual and so far there is no pinging. I did push it this time, especially on the gradual inclines in the high ways where my car would usually ping and it didnt ping.

This is telling me a few things. 1, my ignition timeing is a littla too advanced ( i tripled checked however), or two the compression is a littl too high from the resurfaced head or maybe even a tiny vac leak thats allowind undetected air offsetting the a/f ratio.

The gas too me is just masking the actual problem. this is suppose to be an economy car, its far from being a sports car lol.

The compression test is gonna have to wait till i get the chance to do it.

what do u guys think?

Chris

[george gonzalez]

Could be high compression due to the head planing.

You could try putting in two head gaskets, that’s an old premium to regular gas trick.

[college man]

I think wysetech has the right idea. If you had the head decked.
now you put the head gasket.You have now increased your compression
ratio between the top of the piston and the combustion chamber.Which
raises the compression ratio.Which forces the higher octane. 😉

[Chris]

you know fellas, the increase compression has always been in the back of my mind. I just didnt want to believe that was the cause. I never heard of putting two head gaskets in a honda to decrease compression lol.

would colder sparkplugs and a degree of ingnition retardation be enough to run 89. or should i just stick with the premium?

thanks guys for all the help.

Out of curiosity how would i know if my mechanical timing was a tooth off? if all the lines lined up and are still lined up after i spun the crank several times, would a tooth off be very ovious?

[Author]

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