diagnosing wheel play

[Diman Todorov]

Hi all,

I am feeling a bit clueless diagnosing this:
* 2000 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 2.2l USA

The front left wheel has about 1/4 inch play when I lift the car off the ground, grab the wheel with both hands and move it. There is no noise coming from there though. Except when I drive for 15 or so minutes on the highway and merge back into city traffic. Then a lot of the time I hear a noise from the area of the front left wheel that sounds a bit like an old mattress *squeek squeek*. It seems to get faster and slower with wheel speed and I think when I apply the brakes it goes away but not 100% sure about that last part. For a while I thought the noise may be the brakes setting in as I have had the rotors & pads changed recently (~100miles) but this doesn’t give me peace of mind about the wheel play.

I took the car to two service shops for diagnosis. One said it’s the wheel bearing but I didn’t have it fixed because I felt they were quoting a price which was too high (shy of $500). The second shop I took it to said the wheel bearing is fine and there is no noise. They have checked the bearing with a stethoscope and even drove me around the block to show that the car is quiet. I should probably note that I don’t hear the low growl that typically goes with failing wheel bearings.

At this point this is turning into a DIY project for me.

I have looked under the car and the basics check out: boots are tight, no oil leakage on the struts, no orange dust anywhere. Of course if I really knew what I was looking for I wouldn’t be asking for help 😀

At any rate there is this bothersome free play and there is a lot that can go wrong in the front left suspension. I don’t particularly want to start throwing parts at this because while each one is affordable, replacing everything adds up to a lot of $$$

Do you have any suggestions narrowing down what is going wrong?

Topic

[Lorrin Barth]

You need to find in what place or what part the play exists in. Once you know that then you know what needs repair/replacement.

[Mike]

Here’s the best way I can say it. First know if the steering tie rod attaches to the forward or rearward part of the knuckle, which will be opposite the brake caliper. If tie rod attaches on toward the rear of the car, the caliper will be toward the front and vice versa. If you grab the tire with both hands and pull it in and out on where the tie rod mounts, play there will likely be a tie rod issue. If you shake the tire 180 degrees from that on the other side and the play is just there, it’s more likely a balljoint. If you shake the top or bottom and feel play, that is likely wheel bearing play. This also applies to holding the top of the tire with one hand and the bottom with the other and rocking it in and out that way. A loose wheel bearing will have the same amount of play no matter where you hold the tire to shake it, but the other things will not and show play only if checked from the right spots.

Your symptom is that of a loose wheel bearing as well. They can be physically loose and not make any “wheel bearing noise”, but they can allow the brake rotor to wander around in the pad/caliper bracket and make rotational noise. When you step on the brakes, the rotor gets clamped and stabilized, held in position, and the noise stops. The guy driving you around the block with no noise might just have been lucky or he was driving it just right that it wasn’t making noise. You certainly can’t trust every mechanic to be able to competently diagnose this kind of thing. I know it seems like a simple thing for a professional, but people in my line of work not really held to any standard and there are some really unqualified people being paid to fix cars out there.

[Diman Todorov]

Thanks so much, fopeano!

I jacked her up and gave the wheel a good shake all around. It’s like you say – it doesn’t matter where I grab the tire, the play is the same. In particular if I grab it top and bottom it still wobbles.

I just ordered 2 hub + wheel bearing assemblies at $60 each which is much better than $500 😀 The hubs because on these cars extracting and inserting the bearing is a bit of a hassle requiring specialized tools.

I’ll try putting them on next weekend and will let you know how it went!

[Mike]

Glad to help, but please post a link to what you ordered. I think those are press-in wheel bearings on that car as opposed to bolt-in hub assemblies, which don’t need a press tool of some kind.

This is what I was just looking at:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=2000+impreza+front+wheel+bearing&spell=1

[Diman Todorov]

Unfortunately I can’t easily link as I got it on ebay and it was the last two sets.

The part number matches this: http://www.discountautoparts.com/catalog-1/itemdetail/dura-international/295-96008

You are right, looking at my chilton it seems the bearing is in the steering knuckle. I guess I can still take it off and ask a local shop to press the new bearings in for me…

Oh man, taking those knuckles off will be quite the work-out with hand tools…

[Mike]

It’s as I thought. There is nothing wrong at all with removing the knuckles yourself and taking them into a shop to have the bearings changed. Getting new hubs with them is very good too. It’s more common to transfer the rusty original hub over to the new bearing. What isn’t shown in the kit is the snap ring, which is typically replaced. In most cases it can be removed in one piece and re-used, but rust causes all kind of problems with getting things apart without damage and it’s really goo to have new snap rings on hand and the mechanic will appreciate it more than he appreciates the new hubs.

My work (a dealer with $108/hr labor rate) would probably charge around $250 to change 2 bearings out of knuckles someone brought in themselves (provided the parts supplied fit ok). If you clean up the knuckles around the snap ring (with wire wheel/cup brush) and it looks good, that could be worth a little labor discount

[Diman Todorov]

so I got the knuckle off. The bearing definitely has play…

The set which I bought comes with a new snap ring *yay* and a new axle nut.

I tried to get the bearing out with one of those “never remove the knuckle” sets but it doesn’t work! I couldn’t get the axle out without removing the strut. And at that point doing it on the car became pointless.

Now I am contemplating how to proceed… Do I have a pro press the new bearing in? Or do I go to my friend of a friend who has a press and give it a DIY go?

[Mike]

Using a floor press for it is fine. The hardest part of it is finding and arranging an appropriate array of steel bits (like old bearings, sockets, and proper press V-blocks) to support the knuckle in the right position. Just like an on-the-car tool, there is also some technique involved to do it right. Removing the old snap-ring can be very difficult depending on the rust situation. If your friend’s friend is experienced with this kind of thing, then it should go fine. If you’re all new to it, it could take quite awhile to figure things out but it will likely go fine anyway.

[Diman Todorov]

Thanks again!

As you said, the snap ring will be a bastard to get out. It almost looks like someone over-tightened the axle nut and now the snap ring is stuck between the knuckle and the bearing.

In other news, turns out my assembly came with a snap ring but with no wheel seal – fortunately my local parts store caries these.

I tried renting a slide hammer, putting the knuckle back on the car and hammering the hub out but it won’t budge – guess I’ll wait until I get my hands on that floor press.

All things considered, I find it really hard to believe that it is possible to use the wheel bearing removal + installation adapters that are supposed to work without removing the knuckle. If you want ot even begin using that set you need to figure out the sneaky axle (granted I think I had the steering wheel turned the wrong way), the wheel seal that’s not easy to get out, the snap ring and the hub itself. At that point you really are better off saving the $$$ for the set, renting bearing pushers from your local auto shop and getting a press for $200.

[Diman Todorov]

Thanks again Fopeano!

I am on the road again! The wheel bearing + hub is replaced, the wheels are aligned, the squeaking is gone and she runs better.

To sum it up – the Chilton has the right piece of advice on this: take your steering knuckle to a shop for a new bearing.

Original quotes for full job: roughly $420-$520 depending on the shop.

The DIY cost if you have all the tools required:
$60 wheel hub, snap ring, bearing, axle nut
~$20 inner and outer wheel seals
$70 take knuckle to local shop (I got $50 new customer discount)
$89.99 wheel alignment at pep boys (probably can be got cheaper but I was impatient)
——-
$240 ($190 with discount)

You can save on that: ~$30 no wheel hub / axle nut, ~$20 cheaper alignment which will take you down to $190

Tools you will need:
$6-7 32mm socket for the axle nut
~$30 ye olde wrenches + sockets (1/2″ mount!)
~$30 breaker bar + cheater pipe (make sure one fits onto the other)
$15 torque wrench
$5 grease
$50-60 2 ton jack + jack stands
Assortment of duct tape, WD40, hammer, wire brush, PB fluid is kinda handy

Of course the cheap-skate jack started leaking after 3 lifts so: $4 jack oil. Make sure you vent that air from the leaky jack after every lift and DO NOT do anything stupid – always assume the cheap jack is out to maim you.

obviously protection equipment: latex and leather gloves, goggles – unless you like rust in your eyes, scuffs on your fingers and grease on your hands that never goes out

IMPORTANT but you can rent it from your local auto shop at zero cost:
hub puller
tie rod puller
– make sure you have the right wrench socket to actually use these tools

Bottom line – was it worth it? I didn’t save any money, in fact I probably paid more than the quotes. On the upside, I now have a decent selection of tools which will get most simple wrench jobs done. And also it was a lot of fun to figure everything out!

DO NOT buy any of those wheel bearing pressing sets. I am sure they work as advertised but the they don’t solve the equally difficult problem of removing the wheel hub and old bearing (ask me why I know)

DO NOT try to hammer out the wheel hub with a slide hammer, it’s a waste of time (again – ask me why I know)

DO NOT get a jaw puller, it is a neat and relatively cheap tool but was useless in my case as it had nothing to grip (by now you should have realized how clueless I am)

Remove the steering knuckle, which should take 1-2 hours tops if you have never done it before. It is literally just 5 bolts or so all of which are easily accessible for you to get leverage with your cheater pipe. Take that knuckle to an auto shop.

P.S. will cross-post on subaru forums

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[Diman Todorov]

oops didn’t mean to post this

[Author]

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