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[quote=”Superman” post=40077][quote=”thisisbuod” post=40056]AFA ethanol goes-My dad listens to talk radio, he said they are going to 15% ethanol instead of 10% and that a lot of car manufacturers says it is going to void your warranty. Sometimes he only half listens and I haven’t had the time to look into what he said.[/quote]
I work in quality at a honda warehouse and I received a newsletter on this saying that they are going up from E10 ethanol to E15 will hurt all engines from car to lawnmowers and it will be even worse on cars that the year is pre 2000 or around there all car companys have a lawsuit to stop this from happening. So if E15 wont work in your car I wouldnt use E85.
I have seen that ethanol gas in the West USA cheaper than 87 octane regular. I said what the heck and filled my truck up. I usually get about 300 miles per tank pulling our camper. I was down to 275. I couldn’t keep the truck in overdrive and it felt like I was going uphill the whole time. It didn’t do any damage, but it wasn’t worth the lower price. The next time I filled up I talked to a guy who had a similar truck as mine. He said his truck wouldn’t run well on it either. I will avoid the stuff if I can. There is less power in a gallon. The only reason it’s cheaper is the government is subsidizing it. Meanwhile the price of food goes up because everybody switches to growing corn to sell to the ethanol plant. If you ask me ethanol is a big lie.
+1. If they go to E15 in regular fuel like was mentioned earlier, we’re all in trouble. I don’t particularly believe that flex fuel vehicles have anything more than a VVT system so it can account for the loss of power.
Believing has nothing to do with it. It is a fact that most everything in your engine is designed around what type of fuel you run. First let’s start with octane rating. Gas stations have their fuel and fuel tanks checked by a state authorized representative at least once a month. If you pay for 87 you get 87. Octane rating has to do with the speed and temperature that the fuel burns. 87 burns at a faster rate but a lower temperature and inversely higher octane gas burns at a slower rate but at a higher temp. Putting the wrong octane in your vehicle will probably not cause any immediate symptoms but after time it can cause problems like; shortened spark plug life, shortened o2 sensor or catalytic converter life, back fires, even parts being shaken loose in your engine like piston rods or bearings. In short you should always use the recommended oil weight, octane rating, etc.
The problem with ethanol is that it is hygroscopic (likes to bind water). The issues are not with ethanol itself as it both runs cleaner and produces more power than the gasoline equivalent when implemented correctly. SAAB showed this many years ago and I remember seeing a converted mustang also years ago on TV getting more power http://www.greencar.com/articles/saab-biopower-100-concept-e100-ethanol-vehicle.php. You do reduce MPG which is due to the energy of the chemical bonds (no ring, lacking carbons and the alcohol group), but it is my (unsubstantiated) opinion that it could be equalled out greatly by reducing the power output gained from higher compression.
Ethanol is cool because it is green and produces water vapor as waste versus carbon particles. It is not feasible however to change from gasoline to ethanol until fuel cells are commonplace. There are simply not enough biomass production to sustain the american fleet of cars.
As for octane, octane is the resistance to spontaneous ignition under pressure. Running higher octane is rarely bad unless you go very very high. The spark will ignite and control the timing as usual. Going too low however can cause early detonation which of course is bad. Most newer cars will adjust the timing to the fuel to compensate for octane rating.
Higher octane ratings allow you to run higher compressions = more torque = more power, this is what European and Asian cars do allowing the use of smaller engines, but equal power. In my country, standard petrol is 95 and premium 98.I would never, ever put pure ethanol in my gasoline car simply because when you run out of timing to adjust you are in trouble.
Regarding ethanol and damage to the engine, most sources I have read point to the water in the gas as the main culprit of premature wear. Others say it will eat gaskets, o-rings etc. faster, however as benzene is a hasher solvent I find that hard to believe.
As far as I’ve ever known, under normal amounts of compression, higher octane fuel behaves exactly the same as a lower one. As you said, you can go up but not down. I’ve heard that if you put regular unleaded into most boosted engines, you will almost always blow a hole in a piston because the detonation is so severe.
Your arguments for ethanol are compelling, but it doesn’t change the fact that our food prices are going up because the government is forcing a certain amount of corn production to go towards ethanol. I’ve also always been told that more carbon is produced than with gasoline, but that it is already a part of the carbon cycle and therefore doesn’t matter since it was grown recently and not dug up from millions of years worth of rock layers. Essentially you are only releasing to the air the CO2 that the plant scrubbed from the air.
In order for a car to account for a higher octane it would have to be capable of adjusting spark and valve timing, which most standard cars are not capable of. Running a higher octane can shorten the life of your cat and o2 sensor. Because of the fact that it burns slower you will have more raw fuel or still igniting fuel dumping into the exhaust system. You also will not have as complete a burn in the cylinder which will produce poor emissions and create more carbon build up on valves and piston face. large amounts of carbon build up can lead to pre-ignition which can be catastrophic to your engine.
just as a reply to everyone that has posted pretty much every car but caddys say 87 octain minimum far as i know cars requiring 87 will run fine with higher octane and are designed to do so.
there is no ethenol free gas that i know of the ethonal is in the gas to prevent frozen gas lines a common thing back in the 50s-80s during winter months.
i dont see how a 5% increase in this ethonel would harm much of anything as if anyone actually watched the video i started this topic with they would see that it was shown that e85 in a non flex-fueled car is actually better on the engine and fuel system than regular gas.
and the average person is looking for the cheapest fuel. they dont really care about mpgs. expecially a person like me who drives city miles and travels everywhere via back roads and side streets who rarely if ever drives on highways never accomplish that 30-40 mpgs newer cars offeer. back in the 60s-80s people never paid attention to mpgs. it was never factors unil bush made gas soar in 2000. only ppl bitching about gas prices are those who speed drive agressive and think they need vans suvs or pickups over a perfecty capable sedan or compact car
Well that escalated quickly. Let’s keep politics and vehicle type elitism off the forum.
But since you started, your Daewoo doesn’t go offroad or haul 6 people and a full set of furniture, bro. Cheap fuel that’s less efficient will lead to the same cost overall and trust me, EVERYBODY cares about MPG. I know Prius drivers who care about their MPG more than I do. Of course nobody paid attention when it didn’t cost two or three, or more days wages to fill a gas tank. Don’t get me started.
[quote=”LJ11194″ post=40117]Well that escalated quickly. Let’s keep politics and vehicle type elitism off the forum.
But since you started, your Daewoo doesn’t go offroad or haul 6 people and a full set of furniture, bro. Cheap fuel that’s less efficient will lead to the same cost overall and trust me, EVERYBODY cares about MPG. I know Prius drivers who care about their MPG more than I do. Of course nobody paid attention when it didn’t cost two or three, or more days wages to fill a gas tank. Don’t get me started.[/quote]
what reason is there to go off road? technically all cars are “able” to go off road driving in grass or dirt. Even a care “Designed” to off road is not any less at risk of their frames rotting out from the mud or dirt than any other car nor are they immune to getting stuck.
1. Not all of us live in cities
2. I’ve never gotten stuck
3. Wash it afterwardsIf you’re on this forum you should recognize that cars are about alot more than getting from point A to point B. If I can’t do it in the kind of vehicle I like to drive, I’d rather stay home.
[quote=”LJ11194″ post=40122]1. Not all of us live in cities
2. I’ve never gotten stuck
3. Wash it afterwardsIf you’re on this forum you should recognize that cars are about alot more than getting from point A to point B. If I can’t do it in the kind of vehicle I like to drive, I’d rather stay home.[/quote]
thats exactly what cars are for, getting from point A to B faster the foot travel. Living in cities have nothing to do with needing a car that can go “off road” even a compact car is perfecly able to drive through grass dirt and gravel country roads.
and unless u drive it on a lift it is impossable to wash every nook and cranny on the undercarriage of a car
Public transportation is for getting from A to B. Cars are for having fun while doing it. Personalized transportation is a terrible idea, retrospectively. But at this point it’s what we have done for the most part and it’s too late to change.
Also, in my truck I have driven up and down places I wouldn’t want to hike, with ruts that my Ford Contour could fall into. Admittedly I don’t take it offroad anymore, but only because at it’s advanced age it would probably fall apart. I still haul things with it often enough, which I literally can’t do in anything else. Mowers, weedeaters, dirt, mulch, furniture, scrap, large car parts, etc.
Different strokes for different folks. A type of car someone drives is reliant on their life style. You like your compact car, fine. I barely even fit into alot of them (I’m 6’4″ and 280 lbs) so I’ll never own another one. If I like my truck, that should also be fine with you but it doesn’t seem to be.
We, as in everyone who drives, reserves the right to complain about fuel costs when even if you have a very efficient car (which my Contour is, still gets 30 city), prices of fuel and proportionally everything else have risen more sharply than average MPGs. And that can’t be blamed on any specific person or political party either. It’s actually because more people in 3rd world countries have cars now, and the fuel production for the world is being spread thin.
[quote=”LJ11194″ post=40128]Public transportation is for getting from A to B. Cars are for having fun while doing it. Personalized transportation is a terrible idea, retrospectively. But at this point it’s what we have done for the most part and it’s too late to change.
Also, in my truck I have driven up and down places I wouldn’t want to hike, with ruts that my Ford Contour could fall into. Admittedly I don’t take it offroad anymore, but only because at it’s advanced age it would probably fall apart. I still haul things with it often enough, which I literally can’t do in anything else. Mowers, weedeaters, dirt, mulch, furniture, scrap, large car parts, etc.
Different strokes for different folks. A type of car someone drives is reliant on their life style. You like your compact car, fine. I barely even fit into alot of them (I’m 6’4″ and 280 lbs) so I’ll never own another one. If I like my truck, that should also be fine with you but it doesn’t seem to be.
We, as in everyone who drives, reserves the right to complain about fuel costs when even if you have a very efficient car (which my Contour is, still gets 30 city), prices of fuel and proportionally everything else have risen more sharply than average MPGs. And that can’t be blamed on any specific person or political party either. It’s actually because more people in 3rd world countries have cars now, and the fuel production for the world is being spread thin.[/quote]
true price of fuel is a concern but think of it this way; in Europe gas is around $6.30 USD (i have a friend in germany) Gas in Europe has not been $3.69 USB since 1984 so in that aspect gas is really cheap here in the US. Second, People who drive Vans SUVs and Pickups ARE gonna pay more for gas and fuel up more often regardless of gas prices. Therefore those people who have such Vehicles should not bitch about half a week’s pay going into gas for their vehicles. If you have to commute for work than logically it is better to get a econamy car for that sole purpose. And as far has gas prices in 2000 Gas was $1.49 a gallon here in the state of Minnesota. Because of President Bush and Iraq Iraq retaliated by burning all the oil in the country preventing it from being exported. Hence the still-existane spike in Unleaded and Diesel Fuel costs. Which gas being $3.26 a gallon is beyond me when Alaska is America’s bigest Oil Pipeline why we dont use our own oil rather than depending on the 3rd world country’s supply is beyond me.
[quote=”LeoTheLion89″ post=40114]just as a reply to everyone that has posted pretty much every car but caddys say 87 octain minimum far as i know cars requiring 87 will run fine with higher octane and are designed to do so.
there is no ethenol free gas that i know of the ethonal is in the gas to prevent frozen gas lines a common thing back in the 50s-80s during winter months.
I’m not trying to start an argument but you can’t really say “as far as I know” because your vehicular knowledge admittedly does not go beyond changing oil. Also ethenol was not used to keep gas from freezing in lines cause first; gas doesn’t freeze in lines. The moisture in the gas freezes.Second; the ethanol is used to lower emissions.
You guys are really taking this too far. This isn’t YouTube or FaceBook. It is not an outlet for you to argue with others and it is not a social networking site.
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