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Some products are a waste, most good “Fuel System Cleaners” contain PEA, which is a detergent and not a solvent. You shouldn’t need Fuel System Cleaner(FSC) to pass emissions. If that were the case, simply run a few takes of premium and take the test with premium fuel in the tank.
Some good ones are as follows(PEA containing):
Red Line SI-1 (I = as in Igloo)
Amsoil Pi
Gumout REGANE
Gumout REGAN High Mileage
BG44K^Those are generally the ACTUAL best, not just ‘favorite’.
Other’s function simply as an Upper Cylinder Lubricant, especially in apps that don’t like alcohol(ethanol) containing fuels that USA uses these days. Lucas fuel treatment product is one of these, too expensive for it’s uses as an UCL, not a great cleaner AFAIK(as far as I know).
Sea Foam is ‘okay’ as a cleaner, really more of an UCL because the effects wear off quite fast after use, if you noticed an improvement in idle and throttle response in the first place that is. I get that ‘temporary’ improvement in feel/idle but it goes away fast with Sea Foam use. I only use that VERY occasionally. Personally, I use one of the above in the list before ‘most’ oil changes. Depending on your Oil Change Interval(OCI = mileage between oil changes) every 3,000 may be too frequent; where as 1 oil change every 7,500-10,000 would do well to have a FSC added to the tank prior to the oil change. Best not to introduce fresh oil to more contaminants right away by adding the cleaner after an oil change or at the same time = shorter oil life.
For this reason, most people prefer to use Marvel Mystery Oil(MMO) as an UCL, 2 ounce/5 gallons is the general rule of thumb, BETTER to slightly under-dose than OD and cause your octane to drop some. MMO is cheapest, but has some lubricant and solvent properties. Those are maintenance type fuel additives between oil changes. Another popular one, for older engine at least(FI not DI) is oil that is TC-W3 certified, basically meaning an asheless lubricant(no metal additives to leave behind soot of any kind that is). Use the cheapest between TC-W3 and MMO, TC-W3 is EASIER to overdose mind you. Only 2 ounces / 10 gallons if using TC-W3. FYI = find those certified oils in boating departments of stores or a boat store. Marine shop, etc.
If you have a really neglected engine and can change things such as the fuel filter after additive use then a product that can be purchased online called Kreen is a sleeper product, growing in popularity on forums such as BITOG(google that).. It can be used to clean up a ‘mildly-moderately’ “carbon deposit/varnish covered engine. Can be added to fuel or oil. Of course, if you have actual sludge in your engine, best to manually clean with valve cover(s) removed if possible, then clean the bottom end(with oil pan removed), before continuing clean up efforts with solvents. If you don’t clean manually, don’t use additives. That simple. Instead use a High Mileage oil or synthetic oil on 3,000 MAX oil change intervals for a while before using solvents). That way hardened chunks won’t break free clogging oil passages or the pickup screen/tube in the oil pan.
Getting ahead of myself, but there are products that will have measurable benefits to fuel system cleaning. Some of those can be used added to oil(not on a continual basis but for a specific purpose to address a KNOWN issue like severe examples above, better safe and under-dose/gradually build up treatment than to kill shot your engine/fuel system with Overdose.
Some ‘cleaners’ really aren’t that great at cleaning, if you want solvent B-12 chemtool is powerful. They also make a parts cleaner solvent, which ‘could’ be used to fill a crankcase(not to start the engine mind you!) after an oil change in order to soak the bottom end(crud on oil pan/crankshaft/oil pick up tube or screen)…some have soaked their engine after dropping the used oil with parts cleaner for a couple of days with some sort of heater on the pan, then drop the drain plug on that > refill with cheaper conventional oil at idle > change oil a 2nd time then you are G2G.
First, find out what you want to address, then pick your product. For fuel system cleaning use one of the initial products I mentioned. Any UCL product is better for ‘maintenance dosage’ use. In other words, minimal concentrations. Read each products instructions for use as cleaning application(some UCL ask to over dose really in the ‘hopes’ of using their product to clean when its best in conservative use).
Combustion Chamber Cleaners are also available(Mopar CCC, Amsoil Power Foam, GM Top-End cleaner)…if you suspect heavy varnish/lots of carbon deposits in combustion chamber(poor performance/pinging under moderate-heavy acceleration), those products mentioned are ACTUAL foam spray cleaners that you spray into the Throttle Body(dont do that on engines equipped with MAF sensors, must be ingested a different way if at all), and you basically soak the engine by cutting it off after ingesting entire contents of can. Ideal in summer/engine full temp. Cans usually state to only soak for 10-15 minutes and then restart, but its best to wait 2 hours or so before restart so product can soak/penetrate as much crud as possible. Let it idle for a few minutes, rev the throttle some, then go for some Wide Open Throttle driving(safely mind you!) to expell what was disolved.
When using a top-end cleaner, I use them AFTER fuel system cleaning, since the fuel system’s crud will enter the combustion chamber. It doubles as a way to clean the TB too(using top-end cleaner via the TB).
After expelling, I change the oil. As some deposits etc will be remaining in oil, lots of solvent use may bring viscosity down so prolonged use after ‘may’ be somewhat risky.
Any questions or clarifications let me know.
ive seen and used countless fuel additives and have not seen any real improvement. yt this might be the engine but ive seen newer cars that say don’t use any in cleaner because of eroding the injector seals. as far as i see it keep a good quality gas (yes theirs a big difference in gas) and keep up with your fuel filter changes for me a good rule of thumb 15 minutes 15 bucks 15k change em but you can run them 36k i just don’t like making my fuel pump work harder to give me less clean gas and drive your car on a highway blow out some carbon. i might sound old skool but it MAITMANCE MAITMANCE is the key
I tried Seafoam in my Cobra in the Tank. I was pretty happy with it honestly. I have yet to use anything else. I’m trying to find something to help with carbon build up on the top of pistons. I heard Seafoam will do the trick but only time will tell.
I’ve also heard of using Seafoam in the crank case with very good results. I just don’t want to use it on my Cobra however. Maybe on the DD.
Lucas is another good brand and it works.Chevron is another one too.I agree Seafoam is another,get a DTC for the VVT for a 4.2 inline 6 in a GM product and this works for this instead replacing the cam gear which can get expensive
most of the additives are extreme dosses of the chemicals used in gas or oil. the only ones i trust is, seafome 1/3 1/3 1/3 right before i change my oil on a relatively empty tank of gas, then adding Zmax engine and gas formulas after the oil is changed. it is pricier, but it has made dramatic improvements to my truck.
I like Seafoam, It mostly has noticeably helped in cold starting. I’m not sure why, But takes less cranks to turn over. Ever since I took out my EGR It would crank slower in colder weather. Anyways, How does your oil look after you change it out after adding the Seaffoam? Does it look darker/blacker? I’ve heard that it cleans up the engine pretty well.
If you want to use a fuel treatment that you can just pour into your gas tank, try to find one that has polyether amines in the mix.
Also this is a great site to research all automotive fluids including additives –
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub … p?ubb=cfrm
hbvx seems to offer some exhaustive info regarding fuel additives. I want to take his word for it, as the level of detail seems impressive enough to be believable- scientifically based, even. However, I don’t know if this info is based on his own experience, training, or if it is a copy/paste job from some other source.
hbvx- I mean no disrespect here when I bring up these points. I would like clarification as to where you come by this information, if to just satisfy my curiosity its not all anecdotal in nature. I will say it matches up with my own findings quite well, but mine ore in no way based on any serious scientific study or knowledge.
Now for my own anecdotal comments- I own a 1985 Audi 4000 Quattro with a 2.2L 5 cylinder engine. I owned it from a low mileage- maybe 20k, to over 120k. Somewhere in the latter stages of its driving life (it was sidelined due to a crash my pregnant wife had going to lunch in the rain) it developed a hard start issue, where it would turn over and start, then immediately die. I could start it again, and it might start and die again, or start, stumble, then smooth out. I spoke to an experienced Audi mechanic about this, and he told me this engine had a problem with building carbon deposits on the intake valves, as the fuel injection sprayed directly at the backside of the valve, and when the carbon was present, it would absorb the fuel at startup, not allowing enough to get by and feed the cylinder. Seemed highly improbable to me- I figured it was the cold start unit was probably broken, so I replaced it- no luck. I went back to Audi, and he reiterated what he had said before, and said they usually pulled the head, and bead blasted the intake valves and runners to remove the carbon. read: $$$$$
He also offered another possible solution: use the VW/Audi fuel injector cleaner. I went to the parts department and they pulled the bottle off the shelf behind them (so handy- it must be popular) and I noticed it had all this business about containing “Techron” and the parts counter guy said he thought it was the same additive sold at auto parts stores under the Chevron brand. I purchased the bottle ($$) and added it to my Audis fuel tank. Lo and behold, over the course of that tankful of fuel, the problem went away.
Now I was in the printing business at the time, and worked with a lot of solvents- MEK, IPA, toluene, and a bunch of blends, and I had a working knowledge of many of these solvents, as well as a very knowledgeable solvent dealer who could break down any solvent combination by way of a spectrophotometer, or some such whizbang device- as well as his keen sense of smell, since most solvents are quite distinct in smell. I let him smell the “Techron” laced additive and he instantly said “Naphtha”. He informed me there were various grades of naphtha, but for my purposes, it should not make a difference.
So, instead of spending $10 to $20 on Chevron or Audi additives, I went to the hardware store and purchased a can of Naphtha, and added a similar dose (8~12oz ?) to a full tank of fuel whenever my Audi started running rough. It always cleared up by the end of that tank.
Now I am sure the actual Techron fuel additive has other stuff in it, but I am guessing it is there to make the formula “proprietary” so that it can be patented, copyrighted, etc…. Some of that other stuff might even help do the job, I don’t know. but I do know that the Naphtha clear the carbon off my valves.
In closing, I was reading my Audi 4000 Bentley service manual (the bible on these cars) and at the back there was a small section on using the VW/Audi fuel injector cleaner with Techron. It said to only use this ONCE per tank full- which is something referenced in this thread on a few occasions. It seems that folks who drive short distances – where their engines never fully warm up and run for a half an our or so ant normal operating temps- have a problem with “fuel dilution” of the engine oil. this dilution can become a serious problem, which is why these folks should probably change their oil every 3,000 miles or so, and it is evidently made worse if you use a lot of fuel additives, particularly Techron.
Here is a nice page on Techron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron
^Plausible experience, each person’s “mileage may vary”, if you will. There are plenty of fuel additives with solvents, like you mentioned, on the market. Other’s have actual ‘detergents’ which are considered ‘better’ for different reasons. The difference is a solvent is fast acting while a detergent needs time(so, if you use a PEA containing/formulated fuel system cleaner like Techron or Red Line’s SI-1 or Amsoil Pi, as some of the favorites that I know of). This means it’s best to use it for a full tank and not to drive through this tank as if on a road trip, for instance. It’s best to keep PEA based detergents in the system as long as possible.
Also, in cars with engines that are harder on oil, like you mentioned, it is best to wait until the end of your interval before using a fuel additive, use that tank up and then change the oil.
Some applications aren’t in need, per se, but each app varies. Most of what I’ve learned is from sites like BITOG; referenced the post before your’s. I’ve learned about what products contain the goods I’m after, and the best method of using them. Some apps can respond well to your solvent based. A popular product now is “Kreen”, an oil additive and fuel additive sold online by KanoLabs(considered haz mats so purchase in small containers to avoid shipping fees). It’s like a much stronger solvent based cleaner as compared to Marvel Mystery Oil(a decent Upper Cylinder Lube with mild solvent-based cleansing properties, can quite a noisy fuel pump for instance), so it’s somewhat more like B-12 Chemtool, but this stuff has been used by several posters on the BITOG site with results. No one has had adverse results, folks with sludge engines have used it(bought used, you know the story), piston soaks, fuel system treatment, etc.
There are some products that market to clean and are simply lubes. Sea Foam is a popular product, some don’t like it because it’s basically alcohol dilluted in pale oil, amongst other aspects of the formula. A friend of mine is into remodeling/home repair work and has experience with the chemicals that you mentioned.
I would describe myself as someone that enjoys learning, has read and found about good products from end users, not paid folks or just advertisements, etc. I’m young and am building experience. I’ll share what I know and point you to those who know more, as there are definitely those to be certain. BobIsTheOilGuy.com…great site for forum chat regarding chemicals, etc. Posting up used fluid analysis, the works. Some site sponsors like Pennzoil, Mobil1, to name a few. I’ve posted some of Eric’s videos on that site as well.
Anyway, that site has sub-sections of the forum dedication to fuel additives and also oil additives. Great reads.
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