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Retrofit projectors are available:
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=59031]I hope this answers some questions and puts some fears to rest.
[/quote]The blinding thing…
The reflector of a H4 bulb based headlight has two sets of mirrors. One for the main beam only, and one which is used by both the dipped and the main beam.
A normal H4 bulb has 2 filaments, one for dipped beam, whose light is shielded to only go only toward the upper reflector, and another one for main beam, which is not shielded, and is reflected off both reflectors. (Please don’t take this, or the following explanation as me talking down to you, I just want other people reading this to understand as well.)The kit you installed is a H4-3 type kit. This means one filament which changes its position (using an electromagnet, which is in the base of the bulb in this kit, which was broken on one side according to the repair video) based on whether you need dipped or main beam. The shield / shround /retainer that had to be installed is not there to address the glare issues with aftermerket HID installs, it is there, so that the light is not reflected off the lower (main beam only) reflector constantly. It is an essential piece of every similar bi-xenon kit. When you switch to main beam the bulb moves back in its housing, and gets in a position where its light can get through the cutout on the lower part on the shield to the main beam reflector.
The pattern and concentration areas will remain roughly same (as it can also be seen in the pictures I linked in my original post), my concern still is the scattered light that occours due to the different properties (mentioned in my original post) of the two different bulb designs.
For a crude way to see what the difference in light dispersion is you can take a screenshot of the video, when the before-after is compared on the garage door, then invert it and take a look at it that way (it’s easier to distinguish darker colours). As I said, it’s a rather crude way, because of the differnce in WB, exposure and the position of the camera, but it shows some difference.
You dont have the Re: video up for discussion here and feel free to move this, but i just wanted to ask about the legality issue, (and i’m just curious here) did you ask them about the legality of the blue tint color of the light? that’s what the police grab you on here, not the modification or anything but blue lights on the car. If you ever drive through Southern Oregon (not likely, but hey never know) put the halogens back in, out of state plates and a equipment modification = target for a broke ass police department.
Im thinking about putting a 6k kit in my Caprice. Maybe i could see then.
Eric,
Thank you for posting the Re: video. Regarding the part about the shield around the HID lamp: even with the shield, due the physical differences between and HID lamp (point source) and halogen (filament), you are still putting off glare to oncoming motorists.
I’ve take a screen capture from your video, converted it to black and white (to make it easier to compare without the variations in color), and took some Lightness readings in Photoshop of the area above your headlight beams. Both are taken from the exact same spot on your garage doors.
Notice that the halogen bulbs lightness is only 3/100 while the HID is 15/100. This is showing that in the HID photo, that area of the photograph is 5X lighter. Again, this is in the area ABOVE you headlight beams; the area which would be shining into the eyes of oncoming motorists.
With that being said, unless you shot both photos using the exact same exposure settings (ISO speed, aperture, & shutter speed), the photo isn’t an accurate comparison. Based on the fact that the beam hotspots looks pretty similar, I’d say that the settings were not held constant. If this is the case, the camera compensated for the brighter light in the HID photo and either increased the shutter speed, reduced the ISO, reduced the aperture, or some combination of the three. What this means is that the camera made the entire photo darker to achieve a proper exposure and the above “glare comparison” of 3 vs 15 would actually be an even larger gap than what we are seeing.
Rob
I’ve watched the video only now and the Re: video too.
What can I say?
First of all, here in italy it is illegal to use such kits on “projector type” headlights; if the OEM does not offer the car with HIDs then you cannot use these.
Which is a pity , really, because good sense tells that to see better at night should always be a positive thing.
Of course one should never go around with misaligned or improperly mounted kits, but as long as they’re tuned and properly adjusted, they should not blind anyone.
Sadly, this is almost never the case.I think this has contributed to add to the HIDs negative fame; and please note that even properly adjusted HIDs can still be very annoying to incoming traffic.
But this is also true for OEM installed HIDs; they’re just too strong and if they are misaligned they start blinding very soon, a lot sooner than normal halogens.And those EU regulations that force the OEM to install a self-adjusting height corrector, I wonder if they were in effect when the first vehicles were built and sold… 😉
By the way, if where Eric lives these kits are OK for the law, why not use these??
Of course this can be a problem if one crosses over to other states where they are not allowed…this can be tricky and requires the owener of the vehicle to previously get information about ALL the states he intends to travel through.And now my two cents for all of us that can’t use HIDs:
Some time ago I started upgrading my night vision by:
– using high luminosity halogen bulbs , such as Philips Xtreme Vision or similar, which still have the correct electrical power rating ( 55/60Watts for H4 ), but emit more light
– adopting an improved electrical wiring with high section wires connected directly to the battery terminals, and switched by a standard 30/40amps relay; I measured the voltage at the bulb terminals, and by simply using bigger wires and relays I got an increase of about 1 volt (!!!) which is enough to be noticeable, in fact it makes the lamps emit more light.These two upgrades gave me much better visibility without making me a target for law enforcement people. :cheer:
Hope this helps! 😉
Live long and prosper (and stay dirty!)
10nico
[quote=”Taffy R18″ post=59061]Eric,
Thank you for posting the Re: video. Regarding the part about the shield around the HID lamp: even with the shield, due the physical differences between and HID lamp (point source) and halogen (filament), you are still putting off glare to oncoming motorists.
I’ve take a screen capture from your video, converted it to black and white (to make it easier to compare without the variations in color), and took some Lightness readings in Photoshop of the area above your headlight beams. Both are taken from the exact same spot on your garage doors.
Notice that the halogen bulbs lightness is only 3/100 while the HID is 15/100. This is showing that in the HID photo, that area of the photograph is 5X lighter. Again, this is in the area ABOVE you headlight beams; the area which would be shining into the eyes of oncoming motorists.
With that being said, unless you shot both photos using the exact same exposure settings (ISO speed, aperture, & shutter speed), the photo isn’t an accurate comparison. Based on the fact that the beam hotspots looks pretty similar, I’d say that the settings were not held constant. If this is the case, the camera compensated for the brighter light in the HID photo and either increased the shutter speed, reduced the ISO, reduced the aperture, or some combination of the three. What this means is that the camera made the entire photo darker to achieve a proper exposure and the above “glare comparison” of 3 vs 15 would actually be an even larger gap than what we are seeing.
Rob
[/quote]
Thanks for the input. The image is before the adjustment that I made to bring the drivers side headlight down so it’s really not a ‘fair’ comparison that you’ve shown. After the adjustment both the passenger and the drivers side beams were in line. It might have been better if you did your comparison on the right side rather than the left since those hit in about the same position on the garage door. I admit that it would have been better had I locked the exposure on the camera when showing this. In fact, I had devised a scene for the Re: video where I was going to place a camera in a car that was low to the ground (93 Integra) on the drivers seat with the exposure locked while I drove up to it with my Element. This way I could make a ‘true’ demonstration of how the beams land on oncoming traffic. Thing is I didn’t have the time to shoot that since I had to do a quick turn around on the video.
I did notice while installing the kit that just inserting the HID bulb into the headlight housing offset the adjustment. This means that it’s critical that a proper adjustment be done when installing a kit like this.
I appreciate your input AND your position on HID’s. I still stand by my installation and up to this point I have not had any indication that I’ve been blinding other drivers.
Thanks again for your input.
[quote=”jeremyfountain” post=59032]outstanding re vid loved the intake/echaust manifold explanation made my day[/quote]
LOL yeah that was aimed at me. I LOLed (Thanks Eric). I have a Civic, exhaust is by the radiator!
I have considered HID lamps for my Mustang GT. I did not know many of the con’s pointed out by other members of the forum, so I learned something from the spirited discussion. I believe that I will keep my halogens after considering both sides of the issue.
I also thought the video (and the response) was fun to watch and informative.
Wow a lot of haters on this one. I have HID kits installed in 4 of my 5 cars. No problems with blinding people or reduced visibility during poor driving conditions. I find that they enhance visibility. I had a good chuckle in the RE: vid Eric, when you measured the distance from the ballast to the exhaust manifold. 😆
I agree 100% that adjustments after installing the kit will very likely have to be made. Here in Ontario Canada HID kits are really only a problem if an owner wants a Safety Standards Certificate for the vehicle to transfer the ownership as most of these kits lack DOT numbers thus do not pass safety. The kits can be purchased and installed without annoying the law. (Within reason of course)
Haters gonna hate I guess
I like ’em combined with that grille insert you have installed on your Element Eric. They really set off yours from the other Elements out there.
Cheers!
Jason
Lots of controversy here.
In summary here are some points.
-As always Eric has done an excellent job of the Video and the Re Video.
-This installation is very well executed and the video is second to none for detail.
-The resultant beam was not as well defined as the beam on a HID specific light unit. However it was still basically the same as the Halogen beam.
-Eric does not get flashed at night, this is usually an indication the lights not dazzling.
-Halogen units do vary considerably in terms of the sharpness of the beam. Therefore some units will work with HID and others will be a major problem.
-Law makers have to be cautious so they just create blanket conservative laws.
-I suggest you only attempt to fit these to light units that already produce a clean sharp pattern on Halogen.
-Laws/Insurance make most modifications in most countries not worthwhile.
-Careful adjustment and cleaning of existing halogen lights will also help night driving.
-Keep up the good work Eric.
Eric, I think the powers of the Illumanti was after you!!!!! If you do not know what they are you may have to stay up and listen to Coast to Coast with George Noory!!!!
It is too bad the rude behaviors of others can make such a good thing that you provide, in ungrateful remarks. You are correct. They really only show what they are, and the finger will point back at them.I just registered here after seeing the RE: HID video because I had to put in my 2-cents. I was quite shocked and saddened at ETCG’s demeanor after being treated disrespectfully by some of the forum posters. I have found Eric to be quite a gentleman and a very important part of what makes the web what it is. I have learned from him, have been entertained by him and I expected for him to deserve at least respect if not admiration for his services. I apologize to you, Eric…anyone with a soul could see you were genuinely hurt by these unnecessary comments. I appreciate you, my friend!
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