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Hey everyone! Newbie here to the ETCG site. Just a quickie. I’m currently working on a buddy’s ’02 Kia Spectra, 1.8L DOHC, 5-speed manual. This car had a timing belt snap n so I had to replace it. Little bit of valve and valve seat damage, so he replaced the head, and I replaced the timing belt(also had to manually reset the timing since my buddy installed the sprockets 180 degrees off and the intake cam ready for cylinder two and the exhaust cam ready for cylinder four!) :stick: . After putting everything back together, we started her up. We noticed a HUGE oil leak coming from the timing cover area on the passenger side of the engine bay. Took the top timing cover off and started her up again. We found the oil was running out from behind the intake/exhaust cam sprockets. Is this leak unusual? What the heck could cause this type of leak? I know the timing area is supposed to be free of oil (well it ain’t anymore). Any ideas would be appreciated, thank you! 😆
P.S I almost forgot to mention that this leak is up high and the valve cover seats directly over these cam sprockets (obviously).
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I’ve run into engines where bolts that hold on the belt pulleys or motor mount come out oily on the end so I know they go into an oil gallery. If you put the fastener back without thread sealant you’ll get a leak but not a big leak. Anyway, all the usual leaks that occur in this area are small and annoying. A huge leak means either the head isn’t flat and the head gasket is leaking like a sieve or a seal is missing.
Hey ETCG! I can get a pic over the weekend, since that’s the only time we have to work on it. This weekend I’ll have one for sure.
That’s an interesting point, I’ll be sure to use some thread sealant! At first we thought a small leak WAS coming from the head, where it meets the block. We verified this was in fact the oil coming from behind the Exhaust cam sprocket, in which some ran off into the kitty-corner where the head and block meet, where I thought I saw that small leak. The oil from behind the Intake cam sprocket just runs all the way down inside the timing area filling up the very bottom of the timing cover until oil escapes through an orifice within the bottom cover. By then, the oil just runs all the way down the block and rains off the gearbox.
@ Everyone else,
One thing I also did forget to mention however, my buddy had just added the fresh oil the same day it leaked. He said the engine had no oil inside. But we were only able to fill about 2-1/2 quarts before we noticed it overfilled. No oil inside my right! So the oil was overfilled, just a little, and we were running the engine and oil rained out. (I was also performing a coolant flush of the radiator at this same time, so having the engine running was mandatory since I had to finish this job, which I flushed the rad three times with good ol’ distilled. Too bad I didn’t discover the oil leak BEFORE I began the rad flush). We kept checking the oil level after each warming up session with the rad flush process. The oil level only went down minimally after each session, and by the time I ran the engine the three times for each flush, the oil level was just below full. Lost at least a quart and a half. Also my genius buddy put 5W-30 inside when the manual says 10W-30, and from my understanding the capacity should be around four quarts.
Aside from all this little ingeniousness, I will check to see how the cams are sealed from this big ol’ valve cover. Because I can’t see with the sprockets bolted on. I’m not worried about messing up the timing on this thing either since I already had to manually crank it over and look where each cam was set originally, as well as rotate the sprockets 180 degrees before bolting them back on the cams.
I’ll have an update with more USEFUL information after this next weekend when I look at it some more. I will have pics as well. Thank you guys for already responding! Less than 24 hours! I’m impressed!
Alright everyone I have an update. For the oil leak problem we had, problem solved. And the winner goes to bee24! I asked my buddy if he installed the cam seals before I bolted the timing sprockets back on……..and he said no (surprised I didn’t notice myself before bolting on the sprockets).
That problem being solved however…….we have another problem. We went to drain the oil so we could put in the correct type. With the oil level reading about “Full” on the dipstick, only about half a quart drained from the drain plug. I read the dipstick again, and the level was about a quarter below full. What the heck? I didn’t feel any gunk or sludge build-up just inside the drain plug area, and I really wasn’t in the mood to drop the pan. Well from what I saw anyway, there really wasn’t any kind of “pan” to speak of where this drain plug was….and that’s when we discovered we accidentally drained the gearbox, even though from an image in the manual, it depicts the drain plug to be on the driver’s side underneath. Wrong, the pan was actually on the passenger side and I found the another drain plug on that one. Bingo! Oil poured out like a garden hose. Solved that issue.
Now, we’re regretting accidentally draining the gearbox, because the even bigger problem we have……is unscrewing the fill plug. The plug is a large (about 1 inch across) bolt head about 23-24 mm if I were to guess. WON’T BUDGE! Stripped the head using the sockets so we tried a big monkey wrench, as well as a large crescent wrench. Neither worked. Finally, we had to clamp vice-grips extremely tight on the head and banged on it with a hammer. Nothing. Don’t have an impact, and now the bolt head is almost completely rounded. This is by far the most stubborn fastener I’ve ever dealt with, and now practically no tool can be used to get it off.
I need this drain plug to come off by tomorrow since I’m finishing up the car. How may I get this drain plug off so I can fill the gearbox back up with oil? I would really appreciate some help with this new issue! Thanks guys!
@ barneyb
I noticed I said monkey wrench in my last post. I really meant to say pipe wrench (or plummer’s wrench) LOL!
And what is the purpose for removing the fill plug first again??@ Everyone else
I solved that second issue with removing the fill plug….after driving around for a couple hours visiting multiple hardware stores. I discovered these special extracting sockets made by Erwin (set of 5, comes in a blue container). They look like they work pretty well! However, the set doesn’t have the size socket I needed. They were all too small. Right next to this set, was a big chrome socket with a bunch of spring-loaded pins inside, called Gator Grip! I bought it. Seemed really cool! Guess what, didn’t work. Luckily, with my morale down the toilet, my mind ceased to give up! I finally resorted to filing two sides of the bolt flat with my metal files (so the bolt sorta looks like a square) and again tried the vice-grip method. Much more positive grip on the bolt this time. I inserted a small metal pipe in the handle of the vice grip as a cheater bar. BAM!!! Finally broke that sucker loose! It’ll need to be replaced, but I got it off! I Took care of the gearbox issue, and the oil issue.
So basically, I’m finally done with the car. We test drove it last night and it runs fine! One other annoying problem however. I forgot what causes this, but what is that annoying loud high-pitch belt squeak I hear when I take off in first, and when I’m turning? the noise stops when I take it out of gear and coast in neutral. Note that the timing belt is brand new, as well as the accessory belts. Would that loud squeak be the result of the accessory belts being too tight?
Here’s some pics of the car, even though I solved the two issues I was initially stuck with. There is one final question I had about a little baggie of these “things” that I do not recognize whatsoever. The last image will depict what I’m talking about.Perhaps one of you would be able to answer my question! =]
2002 Kia Spectra 1.8L DOHC
You can see where the cam seals were supposed to go. I feel like an idiot for not noticing.
What in the heck are these things? They look like seals of some sort.
I’d have thought you already knew the reason for removing the fill plug first. It is so you don’t get caught in the dilemma you found yourself in with an unserviceable car.
The things in your hand are valve stem seals. With the valve springs removed, they go over the valve stem and mount onto the the boss where the valve stem enters the head. Well, they can be installed with the valve in or not in the head.
Probably you hear squeaking at the power steering pump pulley. With the oil leak and all the work you’ve been doing, it may be that oil got on the accessory belt. I suggest removing the belt, hitting the pulleys with brake clean and installing a new belt. If that doesn’t work the next suggestion would be a new spring loaded tensioner if that is what the engine has.
If you are certain the belt is oil free on a belt where the tension is adjusted manually, it could be that the belt is too loose, not too tight. I had a car with a V-belt on the P/S pump and I always wanted to mount the belt too loose and would have to go back and tighten it until the noise stopped.
You can use this method the next time you run into a stubborn fastener that won’t come out.
Sounds like you’ve had quite an experience there.
The ‘things’ in the pic are valve seals. They usually come in a gasket kit for a head gasket.
The noise could mean that you don’t have a belt on properly or properly tensioned. It could also mean that something is out of alignment. This video may help with that.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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