- This topic has 12 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by
.
-
Topic
-
Me with my 1984 Honda Accord again.
I was heading into L.A. this morning to a junkyard to pick up some parts for my Accord. So I’m cruising down the freeway, doing about 80mph, and after about 15 minutes the big bright red Low Oil Pressure light came on. I immediately darted toward the shoulder and shut off the engine as quickly as I could, but I’m pretty sure it was too late. For the couple of seconds I could hear the engine before shutting it off, it sounded awful. Deep groaning noise and a bit of tapping (not knocking). I called AAA and got a tow back to a local auto shop that I trust, they’ll look at it tomorrow. I told them everything that happened.
126,000 miles, automatic transmission, original engine. I changed the oil about two months ago, and used the correct type. I even checked the oil this morning before I headed out, it was near full and looked alright. It does burn a little bit of oil over time. Oil filter needed to be changed, not sure when it was last changed but I was about to change it within a few days since I was worried about that. After I had pulled over and shut the car off, I popped the hood and took off the oil cap and looked down in there with a flashlight. A bunch of smoke came out, but otherwise everything looked normal, there was oil everywhere it normally is and nothing looked dry. After a while I pulled the oil dipstick as well, the oil level was where it normally would be when the engine is cold (even though it was still warm). No metal shavings. I get the feeling the oil had all been settled back down in the pan for a while not long after I shut the engine off.
So what do you think I’m looking at, here? The fact that it happened so suddenly makes me suspect failed oil pump, there are no records of whether it was ever replaced at some point from previous owners. I’ll hear from the shop in the next couple of days, but I want to see what you all think first. I fear the engine may be ruined now. In the meantime, looks like I’m going to have to find a cheap temporary replacement car on craigslist.
-
Replies
-
Certainly does sound like the oil pump. Don’t despair; given your quick response, the engine may well survive this.
Could be a oil pump failure or oil pickup being clogged or dislodged.
May also be a faulty oil filter.Thanks guys.
I returned to the shop this afternoon to pick up a few things from my car and they already had it in their garage working on it. They confirmed the oil pump had completely failed. Unfortunately they did have to run the engine for about 15 seconds while testing, they said it sounded really bad. They asked me if I wanted to replace the oil pump and cross our fingers, but the odds are very slim that the engine is still useful. At first I gave them the go-ahead to replace the pump but I had second thoughts, since I wouldn’t be able to get that $550 back and I could instead put that money toward another car. I’m having the car towed to my house later on where she’ll be covered by a tarp, until I can get the money for another engine (used, rebuilt, reman, etc) which the shop was kind enough to say they’ll price around over the next few days and give me an accurate estimate, but right now probably about $3500-$4000 including parts and labor.
I got a good year and a half out of the car. Hopefully she’ll run again someday.
If it was my car, I’d replace the oil pump, do an oil and filter change, and fire her up.
If it turns out you’ll need to partially rebuild the engine and replace a few bearings, so what. You’ll already have a new pump. I’d feel safer going down that route, rather than starting over from square one with a salvage-pick engine of unkown condition for a 30+ year-old car. Rehabilitating the salvage engine could lead to more downtime, headache and expense than rebuilding what you already have. (Salvage engines, which likely haven’t run in years and have been exposed to weather while static will have many cans of worms to deal with. Rust between the rings and bores, heavy corrosion in water passages, and so on.)
At this point, I wouldn’t be too freaked out for having run the engine with low-to-no oil pressure for an extremely short period of time. Old-school engineering tended to leave more meat on the bones and things were more robust for it.
It was indeed the oil pump, according to the mechanic. From the receipt: “Found vehicle has severe engine noise, removed valve cover and oil filter and cranked engine and found no oil on valve train or coming from oil filter adapter indicating oil pump had failed. Recommend replacing engine or trying to replace oil pump with no guarantee it will fix bottom end noise.”
I had the car towed back home today and removed the battery. I’m going to drain and drop the oil pan, see what I find (metal shavings?). I want to remove the oil pump but it’s driven by the timing belt on this car which means I’ll have to remove it to access the oil pump – never done that before myself. Guess I have some reading up to do. I did find another OE oil pump + gaskets on RockAuto for $55.
Timing belt is not a bad job. Follow the Haynes and/or FSM carefully, get the proper tools before starting, and take your time. Have fun!
Just out of curiosity (and it can’t hurt), I pulled the valve cover off today and poked around for damage around the rocker arm assembly. I originally wanted to drain the oil out of the oil pan today (and eventually drop the pan), but the oil pan drain plug is completely rounded off and I can’t get it off until I get a special tool. I’ve already ordered another drain plug from RockAuto. But in the meantime…
I tugged around at each of the rocker arms for play. Some of them had a little play (not side-to-side but up-and-down). I took a picture and matched it up with the rocker arm assembly diagram in my service manual.
I outlined the rocker arms that had play. The exhaust valve on cylinder no. 1 had the most play, it would tap loudly when I moved it back and fourth. It hadn’t occurred to me to check the bearing caps for play, I’ll do that tomorrow.
Just want to know what you guys think if any of you are familiar with inspecting the top ends of engines.
FYI…
Rocker arm adjustment / play is checked when a cylinder is put at a specific location.
If both valves are in the closed position, that is where the adjustment is usually made.^ Ah thank you. I believe that channel has a video that helped me replace a column switch on my Accord a few months ago as well.
At it again today – checked those bearing caps and none of them had play. I was removing the timing cover(s) today and noticed that the timing belt was rather loose. I was able to just slide the belt off the cam gear with my finger (I didn’t slide it all the way off). Has a lot of slack in it – it wasn’t like that last time I checked a couple of weeks ago.
I didn’t finish removing the lower timing cover as the final bolt that holds it on is hidden behind a large drive belt pulley, I have to figure out how to go about removing it.
I bought an Irwin bolt extractor today and it works, I was able to turn the rounded-off oil pan drain plug (but I left it on because I the new plug hasn’t arrived in the mail yet).
Interesting development today.
As I was looking for more of the bolts holding on the lower timing cover, this odd sight jumped out at me:
Yes, that is a huge rip in the lower timing cover, exactly over where the oil pump is (which I don’t remember seeing before). Not only that, but looking down in there with a flashlight – you see those teeth? That’s the oil pump pulley with the timing belt wrapped around it. Something looked really weird about it though – the oil pump pulley is not flat against the block, it’s crooked and partially sticking out of the hole in the timing cover!
Thinking about this for a good while tonight. One possible scenario as to what happened was the oil pump somehow either broke down internally or became dislodged from the block while travelling at high speeds, immediately cutting that crescent-shaped hole in the timing cover when it fell out. But how did the timing belt itself not get totally shredded when that happened? It would explain the extra slack in the timing belt, however. The oil pump pulley is no longer keeping the belt as tight from that end.
What do you guys think? The lower timing cover is very complicated to remove on this engine so it might still be a while before I’m finished…
Finally off work today so I drained the oil out of the pan. Looking closely, I see at least two very tiny pieces of shiny metal in the oil, but it was clean otherwise. I began work on getting the drive belts off as well, but one of the bolts holding the power steering pump to its mounting bracket was apparently tightened by Godzilla (trying to loosen it with my 14mm wrench lifts the entire engine up) so give me more time on that one.
They really never wanted me to drop the oil pan, it seems. There is just so much in the way (exhaust pipe, crossmember) and some of the bolts appear impossible to get to. I’m contemplating just paying the shop $500 to do it…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.