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My 2007 Accord got crashed into on the right, back which crushed in the door, frame around the door, and did damage to the rear rim and pushed in the front of the wheel (damage to control arm). A reputable body shop fixed the damage beautifully and sublet repair of the suspension to the Honda dealership. They replaced the front control arm (the one that has the alignment adjustment)and put the OLD tire on a new rim. Then they did an alignment. That’s the good part of the story!
When I got the car and drove it, it vibrated like crazy. I thought maybe it was due to flat spots on the tires (it had been sitting in the shop for 3 weeks). when it didn’t stop, I took off the tire and found that the rotor was loose because one of the rotor screws (holding rotor to hub) had not been put in all the way before the wheel was put on (the screw was sticking out about 3/16 of an inch and had been bent and deformed — I presume from the force of the lug nuts tightening the alloy rim down on top of it).
I fixed that problem and that helped a lot in reducing the vibration. However, there is still a noise/vibration especially at higher speeds (I can hear it at 40 but it is really noticeable at 60+). It sounds to me the same as the sound you get from a bad tire wear pattern like very severe feathering (the sound changes with speed and is rythmic but repeats at a lower frequency then the wheel revolution) My question is: what is the most likley culprit?
a) the alloy rim got bent due to the lug nuts being fastened on top of the rotor screw that was sticking out?
b) there was accident damage to the tire (that wasn’t detected even by a road force balancer which they used to balance the tire when they put it on the new rim)
c) the alignment is off because they aligned it when the wheel was at an angle due to the rotor screw issue
d) there is uneven wear on the tire caused by me driving the car with the rotor screw problem and the wheel at a slight angle (I probably drove < 200 miles so I wouldn't think that would be enough? Also, I don't see any unusual wear on that tire). e) there was some other (suspension) problem caused by the accident that wasn't fixed. I did try moving that wheel to the front and the sound is different, but it is hard to tell where it is coming from even with the windows open (it is very low frequency). Thanks for any thoughts on the matter!
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I think A or C is most likely if I understand you issue with the screw correctly. Could also be the rotor that warped a bit causing uneven contact? I would imagine that the rotor bends before the rim does but as there are a million different rim designs it is hard to say.
I don’t think you damaged the tire, it is relatively hard to due and unless toe in or similar was way off, it would not wear uneven that fast for you to notice.
You could try to put in a bit more air in the tire or take some off to see if it changes how the car sounds and feels when you drive a short test distance. A flat spot can even out a bit that way and damaged side walls will wobble more when not supported as vigorously by the air pressure. But as I said, assuming they did their job correctly I don’t think you have uneven wear pattern already or a damaged tire that didn’t show at any point previously.
Occams razor would tell you that the screw must be involved 😉you could try rotating the tire to another location on the car. if the noise follows its the wheel tire combo if it stays its something in that location.
Thanks much for the comments. I like the suggestion about changing the air pressure to see if that changes the sound — I will try that.
Regarding moving the wheel, I did exchange it (from the back right to the front left). That definitely made a change in the sound, but because it is such a low frequency sound, it is very hard for me to localize where it is coming from. However, since the nature of the sound changed I am thinking it is likely either the tire or rim (it went from a low frequency whum, whum that repeated much lower than the tire rotation rate to a sound that seemed to be similar to the rotation rate of the tire… if that makes any sense!).
I am wondering if a belt in the tire might have gotten broken in the impact of the accident but I don’t see anything wrong with the tire. Does anyone know, can you have a broken belt in the tire with no visible bulge and will the tire still be able to be balanced with a broken belt?
Thanks again for the input!
since its hard to pin down do you have a spare? put the spare on eliminate the wheel in question all together, see if it still has a noise. try the other wheel on that side too (the one that wasnt replaced but was on the side of the car the accident was.
did the impact spin or skid the car at all? might want to look at wheel bearings on the other side of the car too.
Good call on the under/over inflation test! First I set the pressure on the tire in question to 44PSI (the max allowed) and drove it. The noise was very substantially improved (almost completely gone). Then I dropped the pressure to 25PSI (nominal is 33PSI) and went for a drive — the noise was the same only MUCH, MUCH louder than it was at 33PSI.
So I am thinking it is very likely that the tire was damaged in the accident and have scheduled an appt for 2 new tires! Hopefully that does the trick!
By the way, I did try putting the spare on as suggested. However, the small spare limits max speed to 45mph and the small spare makes a lot of noise on its own so it is hard to know for sure if the noise was gone (but I think it was gone in this test too!).
Thanks again for the help!
Glad to hear it seems to work out for you!
If not, Lord ihcalam had some good points to check out too.
Hope 2 new tires fixes the issue for you, otherwise come back and we can troubleshoot some more :).
Well, in case anyone is curious, or if it helps others, here is how it worked out.
Got 2 new tires and 4 wheel alignment (minor adjustments were made) and the sound was the same — no change!
So I took off the rear calipers and rotors. The hub on the wheel that got hit turned much more freely and if I spun it fast I could hear a very slight metallic sound (I compared it to the hub on the other side which was much stiffer to turn and I didn’t hear any sound from at all). So I replaced the hub assembly and — No Noise!! So it turns out that it was the wheel bearing on the side of the accident. I guess maybe not that surprising in hindsight. I had checked the wheel bearings before by spinning the tire and couldn’t hear anything that way — maybe it needed to be under load to really make any noise. The inner and outer races on the old bearing are really loose (they slide in and out about 3/16″) whereas on the new bearing they are tight, so I guess that is another indication of a bad bearing (when noise/play is not a good indicator)?
Anyway, thanks for the help Nogood and Lord Ihcalam!
Glad you were able to find the issue. In the future the information in this video may help you.
That said there were a couple of things in your posts that I’d like to address. First, the rotor screws are not important and could not cause an issue. They are just there for use during assembly of the brakes, once the wheel is bolted to the hub the screws are not necessary. Second, the only adjustable alignment angle on that vehicle is toe which is adjusted by the tie rods. There is no adjustment on the control arms. Lastly, vibrations are caused by rotating assemblies NOT alignments. People often seem to have the misconception of what an alignment is and what it can effect. Tire wear is really the main thing as well as the way the vehicle tracks down the road and how your steering wheel is centered.
I think you did a good job tracking it down and I don’t think it was a bad thing you replaced the tire as that was likely the cause of the vibration.
Thanks for keeping us up to date and for using the ETCG forum.
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