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[quote=”alumrocker” post=84840]It would be good to get an update with a fully charged battery and also tell us what was the torque spec for those lug nuts.
Personally I use the M12 Fuel 3/8 (12 Volt brushless motor) from Milwaukee which has no problem taking off 85ftlb lug nuts, 5 per wheel, then tightening them back to probably 50ftlb before I finish off with the torque wrench. A full rotation on a car takes about 50% of their small size M12 battery. When I first got it I had the same experience as your DeWalt because I had the Milwaukee on their low speed/torque setting. After switching to high torque with a full battery everything’s been great.
There’s an M12 electric ratchet which I use but it’s torque rating is very low. It’s great to get smaller nuts/bolts in or out quickly once broken free by manually working the ratchet and does save a lot of time. It’s exactly what I’d use to disassemble a head like in your video.[/quote]
The battery was fully charged as you saw in the video. The tool was not defective, it just wasn’t up to the task plain and simple.
Here is how my DeWalt 12V works. It has ample power. Mine was purchased few years ago. It was also made in China. I hope Eric now agrees that his was defective. Unfortunately, the damage is already done.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_MQs8Sa4Y[/video]
[quote=”vgs8606″ post=85652]Here is how my DeWalt 12V works. It has ample power. Mine was purchased few years ago. It was also made in China. I hope Eric now agrees that his was defective. Unfortunately, the damage is already done.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_MQs8Sa4Y[/video][/quote]
First, you did not remove the lug nut with the DeWalt initially, you used another tool. Second, it’s better to push down on the torque wrench instead of lifting up when doing wheels, you can hurt your back that way. I’m glad to see you went to 80lbft though because that’s what the torque should be on those wheels. Your test was not a valid test in my opinion. If you had been able to remove all 5 lug nuts with the 12v DeWalt I’d be inclined to believe my tool was defective, but you were unable to demonstrate that in your video. Show me removing all 5 lug nuts with no prior removal, and I might be swayed.
That said, the tool was NOT defective. I’ve dealt with 12v tools in the past with similar results. 12v just isn’t enough to replace my pneumatic tool which is what I was looking to do. You’re in luck though, Wednesday (1/22/2014) I review the 18v 3/8 DeWalt impact with very different results.
Your gun was not able to take off the bolts which you tightened to 20 ft-lb (or was it 30 tf-lb)! The gun has 96 ft-lb spec. Mine did at least 80 and yours could not do even 30. This gun is NOT designed for wheel removal. I believe when you say that it may not take off all 5 nuts before making sure they were torqued to 80 ft-lb. My mechanic refuses to use torque wrench on wheels. One day I had taken my own torque wrench and this gun to the shop. He put the lug nuts using his “caliberated trigger(!)” air gun and put the vehicle down. Against all the laughter in the shop I whipped out this girly gun, and went after a lug nut he had just tightened. It took few seconds but it did remove it and then I used my torque wrench to tighten it back. I was happy with girly gun and my mechanics’s ability to stop the air gun before 100 ft-lb. No, I did not do that exercise on rest of the nuts.
Thanks for push vs pull on the torque wrench; I was not aware of that.
[quote=”vgs8606″ post=85726]Your gun was not able to take off the bolts which you tightened to 20 ft-lb (or was it 30 tf-lb)! The gun has 96 ft-lb spec. Mine did at least 80 and yours could not do even 30. This gun is NOT designed for wheel removal. I believe when you say that it may not take off all 5 nuts before making sure they were torqued to 80 ft-lb. My mechanic refuses to use torque wrench on wheels. One day I had taken my own torque wrench and this gun to the shop. He put the lug nuts using his “caliberated trigger(!)” air gun and put the vehicle down. Against all the laughter in the shop I whipped out this girly gun, and went after a lug nut he had just tightened. It took few seconds but it did remove it and then I used my torque wrench to tighten it back. I was happy with girly gun and my mechanics’s ability to stop the air gun before 100 ft-lb. No, I did not do that exercise on rest of the nuts.
Thanks for push vs pull on the torque wrench; I was not aware of that.[/quote]
I understand your feelings about the tool, but I do not feel it was defective. Underpowered, yes, but not defective.
There aren’t too many mechanics that torque wheels with a torque wrench unless it’s a high end vehicle. You have to keep in mind that mechanics are taking wheels off and on all day long. They also get paid by the job, so the less time they spend on something, the more they can potentially make. Torquing wheels on everything would cut into profits. My solution was a torque stick. They really do work pretty well. That said, working as a professional technician is not the same as taking care of your own vehicle. Should wheels be torqued? Yes, but as I mentioned, other factors are at work there.
As for the DeWalt tool, I think you’ll be much happier with the results I had with the 18v. As you pointed out, the 12v really isn’t made to remove wheels or things that require a great deal of torque. If used in the right application, the 12v tool would work great. For my purposes however, it was not up to the task.
I do appreciate your input, and the time you took to make that video.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=85830]
I understand your feelings about the tool, but I do not feel it was defective. Underpowered, yes, but not defective.There aren’t too many mechanics that torque wheels with a torque wrench unless it’s a high end vehicle. You have to keep in mind that mechanics are taking wheels off and on all day long. They also get paid by the job, so the less time they spend on something, the more they can potentially make. Torquing wheels on everything would cut into profits. My solution was a torque stick. They really do work pretty well. That said, working as a professional technician is not the same as taking care of your own vehicle. Should wheels be torqued? Yes, but as I mentioned, other factors are at work there.
As for the DeWalt tool, I think you’ll be much happier with the results I had with the 18v. As you pointed out, the 12v really isn’t made to remove wheels or things that require a great deal of torque. If used in the right application, the 12v tool would work great. For my purposes however, it was not up to the task.
I do appreciate your input, and the time you took to make that video.[/quote]
I re-iterate my point that *your* 12V gun is broken and you need to throw it away. It is useless for *any* job. When 95% of the users of this gun give it 4 or 5 rating out of 5, they all can’t be wrong. If you had received a working 12V gun, you would have been thrilled with it, not for taking off the lug nuts but working on that removed cylinder head. Almost every person who has responded to your video on this tool never had a first hand experience with this gun. There might have been no more than couple of others who were perplexed with your experience as their own experience was completely different.
I have been fan of you since your first video debuted on youtube. Being a fellow Honda owner since eighties, you are like “The Pope” to me 🙂 Seriously, I appreciate what you do very much, so please don’t take this the wrong way.
I feel that by not acknowledging the faulty gun, you are unfairly tarnishing a good tool. Mind you, I paid my own money for my impact wrench, I have no connection what so ever with DeWalt as a company and nobody is paying me to argue with you. And yes, I do like my “girly gun” quite a lot, the little thing puts its heart out 🙂
I would appreciate if you would put the link to my video as a video response so that people would be able to evaluate both sides of this argument.
[quote=”vgs8606″ post=85850][quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=85830]
I understand your feelings about the tool, but I do not feel it was defective. Underpowered, yes, but not defective.There aren’t too many mechanics that torque wheels with a torque wrench unless it’s a high end vehicle. You have to keep in mind that mechanics are taking wheels off and on all day long. They also get paid by the job, so the less time they spend on something, the more they can potentially make. Torquing wheels on everything would cut into profits. My solution was a torque stick. They really do work pretty well. That said, working as a professional technician is not the same as taking care of your own vehicle. Should wheels be torqued? Yes, but as I mentioned, other factors are at work there.
As for the DeWalt tool, I think you’ll be much happier with the results I had with the 18v. As you pointed out, the 12v really isn’t made to remove wheels or things that require a great deal of torque. If used in the right application, the 12v tool would work great. For my purposes however, it was not up to the task.
I do appreciate your input, and the time you took to make that video.[/quote]
I re-iterate my point that *your* 12V gun is broken and you need to throw it away. It is useless for *any* job. When 95% of the users of this gun give it 4 or 5 rating out of 5, they all can’t be wrong. If you had received a working 12V gun, you would have been thrilled with it, not for taking off the lug nuts but working on that removed cylinder head. Almost every person who has responded to your video on this tool never had a first hand experience with this gun. There might have been no more than couple of others who were perplexed with your experience as their own experience was completely different.
I have been fan of you since your first video debuted on youtube. Being a fellow Honda owner since eighties, you are like “The Pope” to me 🙂 Seriously, I appreciate what you do very much, so please don’t take this the wrong way.
I feel that by not acknowledging the faulty gun, you are unfairly tarnishing a good tool. Mind you, I paid my own money for my impact wrench, I have no connection what so ever with DeWalt as a company and nobody is paying me to argue with you. And yes, I do like my “girly gun” quite a lot, the little thing puts its heart out 🙂
I would appreciate if you would put the link to my video as a video response so that people would be able to evaluate both sides of this argument.[/quote]
What’s disappointing is that you continue to doubt my opinion and experience. As I said, I’ve had similar experiences with other quality electric tools that didn’t have enough power at 12v. This DeWalt was one of those experiences. As for comments, if you read through them, more people have had similar experiences to me than to you with 12v tools. Once again, if you would have attempted to remove all 5 lug nuts WITHOUT removing them with a larger gun first, I believe you would have had the same result as I did. You can hear the gun struggling in your video with just the one, and I doubt it can remove all 5 consecutively with that tool. In my video I made the comparison between a 12v electric impact and a pneumatic of the same size. Defective gun or not, it was not up to the task of the pneumatic tool as far as power and consistency was concerned, and I feel I’ve proved that. As I said, I’ve gone so far as to make another video using an 18v tool with very different results, which proves my point. That point is, if you’re going to replace your pneumatic 3/8 with an electric version, 12v is not sufficient. In my opinion, you have yet to prove that my tool was defective. Mind you, I’m not saying the 12v tool is a bad tool. I think it would work quite well in ‘light’ applications. What I am saying is that the 12v tool did not work for my purposes, which was to replace, or be an alternative to, my pneumatic tool. I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Did you torque that fastener at 30 ft-lb for test and your gun did NOT take it off? I showed you that I torqued a fastener at 80 ft-lb and my gun took it off. You have utmost integrity and you have been forthcoming in accepting any shortcomings in your pas videos. So this seems to be completely out of your character to insist that a gun which is rated at 96 ft-lb fails to remove a fastener which you personally tightened to 30 ft-lb is completely within specification! That is utterly ridiculous. You gun is broken and there are no ifs or buts about it. I understand this is your forum and you have every right to not allow any criticism or stop the discussion but I believe I have been respectful and have not crossed any lines in arguing with you. Unfortunately, we seem to be on a collision course over this subject which is quite unfortunate 🙁
What would me taking off the 5 lug bolts using my wrench prove? I am not claiming that is capable of doing that job! I also agree with you that this tool can not be used as the substitute for your 3/8 air gun. I explicitly stated that is not the right tool for that job. What I am claiming is that the tool specimen you showed in the video is completely useless but that is just your copy which is bad. All the comments in your video supports you but they do based upon what you showed them and or their similar experience with *other* similar 12 volt tool. There were three or four responders (including me) who questioned your findings as they do own this particular tool.
I expected your review to end in “This particular tool does not perform to its rated specification” and not any other wishy washy conclusion. If I had got the same results as you did, I would have returned it and so would anybody else who paid their own money for this tool. If you don’t see that you and I got completely different results, then I don’t know what to say to you. It does disappoint me greatly though that you are refusing to admit that your gun was faulty. Is it because you are not “allowed” to say that?
What does your experience and expertise has to do with the simple fact that your gun failed to meet the specification?
As I said in my last post, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. The tool was not up to the task of serving as a replacement for my 3/8 pneumatic tool as you yourself have pointed out. That is what was proved in the video, and I see no point in going back to try another tool. Even if it did do a better job, I still believe it would not be up to the task of replacing my pneumatic 3/8 impact. This is my main point to your argument. Aside from that, I have tool review videos booked for the next 2 months and then some. I don’t see any point in revisiting the 12v tool after that time, it’s just not practical. I’d have to order the tool, wait for it to show up, then find a way to work it into the editing schedule, and then upload and post it. I believe you’re taking a very narrow point of view here and forgetting about the big picture of what it is that I do. I can’t keep beating a subject like this to death, I have to move forward. I have other videos to produce. We can discuss it here all you like, but I’m not planning on making another video just for you, sorry. You’re complaints have been noted, I have not ignored you, and I’m OK with you disagreeing with me. As I said, I’ve already given DeWalt another chance with tomorrows video. I think that’s more than enough as in that video, I have presented an alternative to the 12v tool that does work as I had hoped. As I continue to say, the 12v tool, no matter how you look at it, does not live up to a replacement for my pneumatic tool. I still do not believe the tool was defective. That’s my opinion and I believe I’m entitled to it. In fact, if you look at their 1/4 impact, it looks like it shares the same housing as the 3/8. I suspect that all they did was change the drive in the 1/4 to make a 3/8 tool, which in my opinion would not provide enough durability to hold up to the work I do with my pneumatic 3/8. Also, lets not forget that these are Chinese tools in DeWalt clothing.
We have a difference of opinion. I’m OK with that. In tomorrows video, I address my experience with the 12v tool. Perhaps that will satisfy your opinions on this matter. So before you respond, I would ask that you watch that video. That way all the cards are on the table and you can have a more informed response to my opinion.
Is 12V tool good enough for your needs? NO WAY! I agree with you 110%. We have no disagreements there.
Was your 12V broken? I understand completely if you say you are not interested whether it is broken or not as it is NOT the right tool for you. Once again I am in total agreement with you on not bothering to replace or re-run your test with another 12V. I might have implied that in the past but now I realize it was completely wrong of me to do so. You can not do that and that is perfectly rational and valid decision on your part. I apologize if this is what started the ball rolling. Now I might understand where you are coming from. All the time you were thinking I was pressuring you to re-do the video but that was really not my intention at all!
Hopefully we are on the same page regarding you and 12V tool.
Where we part the way is your insistence that it was not broken vs my assertion that it was broken. This is not religious or political or philosophical discussion. This is a scientific argument. Both of us can’t be right! Suppose you came out and said “Ok, may be the tool I received was broken but I don’t care either way” I will shut up. May be you already said that and it went past me 🙁
Suppose you bought a clutch kit from your supplier and when you got it, found out it does not fit and realized that the wrong part was sent to you. HOWEVER, you also noticed that the clutch disc itself was cracked. Of course, you got the wrong kit BUT not only it did not satisfy your needs but it also happened to be defective. You would not insist on saying “the kit was fine it just did not work me”.
[quote=”vgs8606″ post=86057]Is 12V tool good enough for your needs? NO WAY! I agree with you 110%. We have no disagreements there.
Was your 12V broken? I understand completely if you say you are not interested whether it is broken or not as it is NOT the right tool for you. Once again I am in total agreement with you on not bothering to replace or re-run your test with another 12V. I might have implied that in the past but now I realize it was completely wrong of me to do so. You can not do that and that is perfectly rational and valid decision on your part. I apologize if this is what started the ball rolling. Now I might understand where you are coming from. All the time you were thinking I was pressuring you to re-do the video but that was really not my intention at all!
Hopefully we are on the same page regarding you and 12V tool.
Where we part the way is your insistence that it was not broken vs my assertion that it was broken. This is not religious or political or philosophical discussion. This is a scientific argument. Both of us can’t be right! Suppose you came out and said “Ok, may be the tool I received was broken but I don’t care either way” I will shut up. May be you already said that and it went past me 🙁
Suppose you bought a clutch kit from your supplier and when you got it, found out it does not fit and realized that the wrong part was sent to you. HOWEVER, you also noticed that the clutch disc itself was cracked. Of course, you got the wrong kit BUT not only it did not satisfy your needs but it also happened to be defective. You would not insist on saying “the kit was fine it just did not work me”.[/quote]
OK, now we’re getting somewhere. I don’t THINK the tool was broken but I suppose it’s not outside the realm of possibility. I apologize if it came off as if I was not willing to hear your point of view on that. As you pointed out, I was thinking differently on the matter. I can see that we were both coming from a different place now and I’m good leaving it this way. Should the opportunity come up at some point in the future I’ll look into getting another 12v tool and trying it out. If it performs better than the first one, I will most defiantly concede my point to you. In a public way at that.
Fair enough?
Now that is the Eric I know and love 🙂
I think if you need a 12V, there are better choices than the one which I love and you hate. If you are going to select a tool, decide its intended usage first. Forget the voltage. Concentrate on its ergonomics, size, weight, balance, features and obviously important torque and staying power. Whether it is powered by 12V or 18V or 24V or a nuclear reactor is immaterial 🙂
You already conceded that with the 18V tool, the balance and the ergonomics had already taken the hit as compared to 12V tool. Just imagine if only the little brother had the 80% torque of the big boy! You would have been happy with it, right? You would have found it lot more useful and you could have retired your pneumatic air ratchet (NOT the gun) with this. Just think how easy it would to not have to drag the air hose inside the car or under the hood.
But this will be a personal decision. Some people may like the ergonomics of Bosch better than DeWalt. Nothing wrong with that. When it comes to personal likes or dislikes, you never have to justify it to anybody else.
Getting back to the topic, if you have the same criterion of replacing your air gun with the 18V DeWalt tool, I believe it fails miserably in fulfilling that requirement.
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